Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid".... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

Was doing some reading lately about the difference between A codes, B codes and Hybrids; have some questions about fuel atomization and pressure ranges and how they effect mileage, power, ect.
From what I can gather from Bigr's sticky on the main 7.3 page:
1) A codes have a 6mm plunger and a 16mm intensifier piston and = 7:1 icp ratio
2) B codes have a 7.1mm plunger and 17.5mm piston and = 6:1 icp ratio
3) Hybrids have a 7.1 plunger and 16mm pistion and = 5:1 icp ratio
So, there must be then an inherant drawback in lowering icp ratio such as less optimal atomization, but while loosing psi you are gaining fuel flow at the same given High press oil flow. Is this on track?
Also, I was wondering what role nozzle size plays in the final fuel psi in the cylinder during combustion? Ok, If a person for instance was running Big Oil at say 3600psi of icp with an A code injector you would see a 25,200psi at injection correct? And 21,600psi with a B code, and 18000psi with a hybrid at the same given amount of HPO capacity. So, obviously the hybrid would be flowing much more fuel than the A code but at a lower press. Does nozzle size change the final ratio and the amount of oil need to supply? If so, what are the real world differences in say towing for instance with a theoretical difference of 7,200psi of injector press between the A and the Hybrid?
Ok, another thought. If there are benifits to much higher injector psi (I think the Dmax and Cummins common rails run like 25000psi+ dont they?) could a person build a "reverse hybrid" (for heavy towing) with a 6mm plunger and a 17.5mm piston and make 8:1 icp ratio? If so, I'm sure you'd need big oil but, geeze; 3600psi of icp @ 8:1 = 28800psi. Whats yer thoughts? Thanks, 'Leeter

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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 04:37 PM
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Re: Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

Dzljim has run reverse hybrids, he said they were having trouble with tuning last I heard.

And nozzle size will affect injection pressure. I think if you actually developed 25k psi, you may have injector internal sealing problems.

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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Re: Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

doh
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 12:02 AM
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Re: Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven3Leeter View Post
Was doing some reading lately about the difference between A codes, B codes and Hybrids; have some questions about fuel atomization and pressure ranges and how they effect mileage, power, ect.
From what I can gather from Bigr's sticky on the main 7.3 page:
1) A codes have a 6mm plunger and a 16mm intensifier piston and = 7:1 icp ratio
2) B codes have a 7.1mm plunger and 17.5mm piston and = 6:1 icp ratio
3) Hybrids have a 7.1 plunger and 16mm pistion and = 5:1 icp ratio
So, there must be then an inherant drawback in lowering icp ratio such as less optimal atomization,
(correct)
but while loosing psi you are gaining fuel flow at the same given High press oil flow. Is this on track?
(Not really)
Also, I was wondering what role nozzle size plays in the final fuel psi in the cylinder during combustion?
(bigger nozzle will yeild less psi at the tip and not as good attomization, but has a higher fuel flow bigger nozzles do tend to be more oil thirsty than smaller nozzles cause the fuel flows faster do to less resitance but the Intensifier piston moves faster due to less resistance and that is why it uses more oil)
Ok, If a person for instance was running Big Oil at say 3600psi of icp with an A code injector you would see a 25,200psi at injection correct?
(In theory but I believe that that is not even close those numbers would be true if there were no hole in the nozzles)

And 21,600psi with a B code,
(Same as above)
and 18000psi with a hybrid
(IMHO a hybrid probably has a higher injection pressure at the nozzle than either a b code or an a code)
at the same given amount of HPO capacity. So, obviously the hybrid would be flowing much more fuel than the A code but at a lower press. Does nozzle size change the final ratio and the amount of oil need to supply?
(oil yes but the ratio still stays the same)
If so, what are the real world differences in say towing for instance with a theoretical difference of 7,200psi of injector press between the A and the Hybrid?
Ok, another thought. If there are benifits to much higher injector psi (I think the Dmax and Cummins common rails run like 25000psi+ dont they?) could a person build a "reverse hybrid" (for heavy towing) with a 6mm plunger and a 17.5mm piston and make 8:1 icp ratio? If so, I'm sure you'd need big oil but, geeze; 3600psi of icp @ 8:1 = 28800psi. Whats yer thoughts?
They dont work very well. Oil cont enter the injector fast enough to make that pressure.
Thanks, 'Leeter
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 12:13 AM
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Re: Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 12:23 AM
 
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Re: Injector press ratios, nozzle size, fuel atomization, and a "Reverse Hybrid"....

Remember that all those numbers are theoretical and may not pan out in real world driving. A lot depends on the condition of the injectors, HPO system, engine, etc.

BD is one of the best performing injectors for big HP all around. It has decent injection pressure, flows quite a bit of fuel and is relatively easy on the HPO for the amount of fuel injected. But to run BD's you have to have good supporting mods.

Hybrids are the best bang for the buck in the big fuel department on injectors alone. The nice thing about these is that you can run stock HPOP and still get a decent running truck. You do end up a bit short on the IP which is the reason that hybrids tend to be a bit more smokey but a lot of that can be tailored with tuning.

Reverse hybrids are a great idea, but so far I don't think there have been any really successful sets built yet. Injection pressure is important, but it's not everything. What injector you go with depends largely on what the use of the truck will be and how much power you want.
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