Traction bars and Ladder Bars - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4
Traction bars and Ladder Bars

I have been searching the entire forum to find anything on how to build traction bars and ladder bars properly.

Properly built traction bars should not need a shackle to provide full range of suspension. What is the equation to calculate what length of bars provide the correct geometry? What torque and HP ratings are required? What diameter and wall thickness of tubing is necessary? (yes bigger diameter is better but $$ and heavy)

Properly built ladder bars should provide full range of suspension while having a shackle of proper length that allows rotation of the ladder at the same rate as the axle would rotate under normal suspension travel.

CALPOLY's motto is learn by doing. Currently I am looking for senior project ideas. I was asked by strokin_early_99 to build some traction bars for his truck which brought me here for info and designs. It seems everyone has ideas but no one knows what the equations are to solve for the correct length for every suspension configuration. If anyone is willing to sponsor a senior project to reaserch suspension geometry.

My goal would be to build a set of equations that can be used to determine proper dimensions for both traction bars and ladder bars, as well as determine the best uses of each design. This reaserch will then be followed up by the construction and testing of both systems. After completion of the project the suspension systems will be the sponsors to use and abuse. If you are interested and would like more info feel free to give me a call.

Nicolas Hellewell
Cal Poly Mechanical Engineering Senior
510-915-1187
Calpoly Racing is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 06:15 AM
What else?
 
smokyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wellington, OH
Posts: 4,156
Send a message via AIM to smokyred
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

Here's some info about my traction bar setup, to be honest, my traction bars were built to have the same angle as the rear half of my 2 piece driveshaft. I have an extended cab long bed (155" wheelbase) truck, and the bars came out to being ~6 1/2 feet long.

They work very well hauling loads of over 1k lbs. in the bed and they still allow full suspension droop when on a 2 post lift, while not giving any indication of binding. They also help the truck hold the road better when cornering.

For the bars themselves I used adjustable track bars from Ridewell suspensions because we had lots of them laying around, I cut them in half and welded in some 1 1/8" solid round stock. They give a little if you pull down on them with your weight, but they don't give when they're under compression.

I know all of that doesn't sound very scientific and all, but it sure works good.

If we had equations to help figure it out, that sure would help!

Dave

'08 F250 6.4/Torqshift Spartan 310EL, Flo-Pro 4", White_monster air intake, RCD 4-link, RS9000's 584/1330
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Taking a break from trucks to play with guns!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
smokyred is offline  
post #3 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 11:53 AM
Crazy Talk
 
powerstrokenstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Staunton VA
Posts: 3,537
Send a message via AIM to powerstrokenstang
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

i did the same thing except w/ 1 1/4 pipe, and cut top links in half. seem to work great. and mine are 6 feet long they go to where the frame drops back down.

1996 F-250 ex-cab -D60- Motor,fire hoses-Nate,Tuning,Cam-Matt R,P-rods,dummy plugs-Wipe Out,Huffer-Engineered diesel,Carson,Gen3,Idm-Swamps,Rods,studs,fire rings-WOP,Clutch-Valair
455/400's in,S475 T-6 mounted
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'84 f-350 2wd, 6.9l, 4spd, drw, flatbed. For Sale

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
powerstrokenstang is offline  
 
post #4 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Twilightzone
Posts: 7,764
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

Get a 1/10 Scale RC truck and build the link suspension yourself from scratch, over and over in as many ways as you can think of. Parallel 4 link with panhard bar, triangulated 4 link, triangulated with the uppers, triangulated with the lowers, triangulated toward the axle, triangulated toward the center of the vehicle, so on and so forth until you have a good understanding of how dimensional changes effect the suspension operation.

Or model different link geometries in some form of CAD software.

Either one will do wonders for your understanding. I would give the tip of the hat to the physical modeling for conceptual understanding and the computer modeling for the physical understanding on a more precise basis, in terms of exact lengths, angles and such.

And you are absolutely right, properly designed link geometry does not require any form of shackle nor does it restrict the suspension cycle in any way other than the movement you are choosing to restrict with the link itself.
Charles is offline  
post #5 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 07:53 PM
Electrical Nomad
 
Mayday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wash
Posts: 93
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

search on google. but for the most info i would log on to Pirate4x4 and search. dont post up until you have search the site for at least a week it is full of info and people on there are tired of going back over it. i think you will find what you are looking for there. if you want no binding at all you need to have a shakle or slip joint. solid links on a leaf sprung suspension equals binding.

2000 F250- hybrids, GT38R, ATS trans, mod IDM, ITP fuel system, and DP tunes.
Mayday is offline  
post #6 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 09:15 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 987
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

I like my ladder bars. Not everyone does. They work very well though. I have plenty of travel.
Pics are here:
www.mcspadden.cc/ladderbars.html
NWSUPRD is offline  
post #7 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 09:20 PM
Evil Genius
 
DCSpecial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Psych Ward
Posts: 2,190
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

You measure the leaf spring, figure out it's range of motion during suspension movement and then calculate out what length to make the the bar so that the arc that the bar travels in matches the movement of the leaf springs.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DCSpecial is offline  
post #8 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 10:28 PM
Electrical Nomad
 
Mayday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wash
Posts: 93
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSUPRD View Post
I like my ladder bars. Not everyone does. They work very well though. I have plenty of travel.
Pics are here:
www.mcspadden.cc/ladderbars.html
i like the looks of those. i might have to copy your design.

2000 F250- hybrids, GT38R, ATS trans, mod IDM, ITP fuel system, and DP tunes.
Mayday is offline  
post #9 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 12:05 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 987
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayday View Post
i like the looks of those. i might have to copy your design.
Be my guest. I paid for them to be made for my truck that is not lifted in the rear. Only leveling out the front. I had a difficult time finding anything that would fit so had them made.

Copy away, it just feels good that I am not the only one that likes them.

I got them to stop sheel hop/axle wrap and did not realize the other handling enhancements like cornering. They really set you down in a hard turn.

Make for fun driving.
NWSUPRD is offline  
post #10 of 72 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 12:39 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Twilightzone
Posts: 7,764
Re: Traction bars and Ladder Bars

Quote:

if you want no binding at all you need to have a shakle or slip joint. solid links on a leaf sprung suspension equals binding.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is simply incorrect. And it's explicitly the kind of link "design" that the OP does not want anything to do with.

A shackle or slip joint on an Anti-wrap link is an engineering abortion.
Charles is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome