Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!! - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Well.....Today was good day. met up at NWSUPRD's house to install my HPX line and Dino Fuel Alternatives Fuel Cross-Connect Kit. I was expecting the smoother/quieter motor, but I got a lot more than what I was lookin for.

We decided to do the fuel stuff first. The kit installs into the rear driver's side port and front passenger side port then runs into the return line. It creates a loop in the system that our motors should have come with from the factory. It went in smoothly and inlcuding the test drive took right at 4 hours. Could probably do it in 3 the next time, but I was goin slow and careful. The smoothness was amazing and the motor was much quiter. picked up about a pound of boost, but much better drivability.

Next I put in the HPX line. Didn't take too long...but...after the first run, the passenger side fitting must have not gotten tightened enough and pushed the o-ring out a bit and was seaping oil. Pulled that side off and replaced the o-ring with one of the factory ones since it was all I had and they were in good shape. Went for another test drive and everything is looking good. Just need all the oil to drain out of the valley so I know for sure I don't have any leaks.

The test drive after the HPX line was the crazy one. We took off down the "local drag strip" and I was cruisin along and Mike says.... "Wow....your at 25 pounds.." Right now my boost gauge is in the ash tray so I hadn't even been lookin..... Sure enough, I'm pushin just past 25psi max now. The truck gets there a lot quicker and much smoother than before. It's still hard to believe that I picked up almost 5-6 pounds of boost for $180!

If you don't have the coin for the regulated return, I would definitely suggest you get ahold of Jason over at Dino Fuel Alternatives and pick up the Fuel Cross-Connect Kit and HPX line. Well worth the money!!!

We also got Mike's new actuator installed....A BIG thanks again to Mike for the help and the shop space!


1999.5 F-250 XLT Crew Cab Short Box
4X4 7.3L Powerstroke
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 06:48 AM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Give it a few days and I bet you find that your throttle response and power may pick up a bit more. The tuner may diminish that some though. Typically when stock the computer will actually detune some to the weakest injector to keep the motor running smoothly. so once you fix the #8 injector, the computer has to relearn that #8 is no longer handicapped and will gradually bring everything back up a bit. Normal break in time seems to be about 200 miles.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 01:02 PM
 
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Nathan your truck is really running nice! I bet your ET's will show it.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 01:37 PM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

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Originally Posted by fordnut74 View Post
Give it a few days and I bet you find that your throttle response and power may pick up a bit more. The tuner may diminish that some though. Typically when stock the computer will actually detune some to the weakest injector to keep the motor running smoothly. so once you fix the #8 injector, the computer has to relearn that #8 is no longer handicapped and will gradually bring everything back up a bit. Normal break in time seems to be about 200 miles.
What? You 're saying the computer tunes it's self then performs based on it's what it learns. Could you give more details I've never heard such a thing?

I always thought the computer has a "tune" or program of SET parameters to operate from based on the input from various sensors.

1994 F-700 Cummins 5.9 12v and Arbortech chip body

1999 International 4900 DT466E w/Allison auto, flatbed 60' rear mount altec am855 boom.

2001 F-350 7.3 4x4 reg cab, single shots, BTS trans,
35" toyo mt's on black 18" KMC addicts

2006 F-350 6.0 4x4 cc lariat, 20" stock wheels with toyo at's....waiting for studs and all that.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 01:43 PM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Quote:
The test drive after the HPX line was the crazy one. We took off down the "local drag strip" and I was cruisin along and Mike says.... "Wow....your at 25 pounds.." Right now my boost gauge is in the ash tray so I hadn't even been lookin..... Sure enough, I'm pushin just past 25psi max now. The truck gets there a lot quicker and much smoother than before. It's still hard to believe that I picked up almost 5-6 pounds of boost for $180!

We also got Mike's new actuator installed....
So you feel as though you picked up 5-6 pounds of boost from the HPX line?

Could you go into more detail about the actuator, are you talking about a waste gate actuator on your turbo, that would have a direct effect on turbo boost.

1994 F-700 Cummins 5.9 12v and Arbortech chip body

1999 International 4900 DT466E w/Allison auto, flatbed 60' rear mount altec am855 boom.

2001 F-350 7.3 4x4 reg cab, single shots, BTS trans,
35" toyo mt's on black 18" KMC addicts

2006 F-350 6.0 4x4 cc lariat, 20" stock wheels with toyo at's....waiting for studs and all that.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 01:47 PM
 
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

2 different trucks here. The fuel crossover and HPX netted a 5-6 lb gain in boost on Nathan's truck.

We put my big head wastegate actuator on my truck. The stock one would only hold around 32 lbs of boost. Should get around 40 now.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

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Originally Posted by frashdog View Post
So you feel as though you picked up 5-6 pounds of boost from the HPX line?

Could you go into more detail about the actuator, are you talking about a waste gate actuator on your turbo, that would have a direct effect on turbo boost.
Like Mike said, two different trucks.

On my truck, I wouldn't say that just the HPX line netted the 5-6 pounds of boost. It was the combination of better fuel flow from the Fuel Cross-Connect Kit and the HPX line. Throttle response and acceleration had improved after we put on the Fuel System and netted around a pound of boost.

After the HPX line was put in the engine had better oil flow. I'm not an expert, but I am learning, and would imagine that I'm getting better atomization due to the HPX line and more consistent pressures across all 8 injectors. I also failed the #8 cylinder during a contribution test before, and that cylinder shouldn't be failing now. That means it is actually working like it's supposed to and at it's full capacity.

As far as the computer goes. It is a system that learns things over time. One of the biggies is the transmission. Both engine and tranny have parameters to work in, but the tranny especially learns your driving style so it works best with how your foot typically moves.

I don't know much about the engine tuning, but what fordnut said makes since. The computer is always using its sensors to try and balance things out for the safest and most efficient operation. If one cylinder is weak, it has to detune the others to get them to the same level.


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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 03:27 PM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frashdog View Post
What? You 're saying the computer tunes it's self then performs based on it's what it learns. Could you give more details I've never heard such a thing?

I always thought the computer has a "tune" or program of SET parameters to operate from based on the input from various sensors.
Now this is not Hard Fact that I can Quote, but I do remember reading some about it, and have used existing knowledge to deduce some as well. SO here goes my explanation with some background first.

Any object made is made to fall within certain tolerances. On mass produced items like our beloved 250bhp PSD motor are going to far more than say on a turbine part for a jet engine. The higher the tolerances, the less the production costs(less precision costs less). Besides costing less to make, the more tolerance you allow for, the less waste you will have. Again- cheaper. Now you consider all the parts that go into the motor, made to fall within the "is it good enough to work" column and you have a lot of variables. Look at Camshaft stroke and balance, piston height, wrist pin height, centering of bearings, crank bore locations, cylinder ring sealing, deck height, valve lift, pushrod length, rocker geometry, the list goes on. And then we get into the injector itself and all of its parts, P&B, inensifier piston, nozzle, solenoid strength, etc. Now lets look at the HPOP. Again a whole lot of parts that can have an ever so slight tolerance. When put together this all adds up as Tolernace stacking and can become significant. Allow me illustrate it this way. Say has a Carpenter cuts 16 2x4's to 9ft, plus or minus a 1/16th. Well depending on who did the cutting on that day, the saw blade, etc all the boards can be within spec(1/16) but when put end to end could add up to be an inch off, which is way out of tolernace. So you can see how tolernace stacking can add up even when nothing is wrong or out of spec. The the higher the manufacturing tolernaces, the more the potential effect of this.

Anyone who has an AE probably has noticed something called "rotational change velocity". This feature measures in percentage how much rotational velocity is at each cylinder. This is something that the PCM constantly monitors for each cylinder. 0 means that all the cylinders are contributing equally. The higher the number, the more a cylinder is not contributing. While we use this to check on injector performance, it is inteded to monitor cylinder performance. Due to the tolerance stacking mentioned earlier, if all cylinders are treated the same, there could be potentially a significant output differance from your weakest cylinder to your strongest cylinder, but nothing at all wrong. The engineers needed a way to compensate for this. So in came
"rotational change velocity" The computer will attempt to keep all these figures at 0, within a certain tolerance. So obviously we can push the weak link harder, so the computer will bring the others down to match the weak link. Again only within a minimal range. Once the weak link exceeds whatever the predetermined acceptable range is, it will show up on the "RCV" Remember, RCV does not care why a cylinder is not as strong, be it injector, CP, leaking valve, etc.

So finally we get to the moral of the story. As we all already know, thanks in large part by the early work of Hutch, the OEM fuel design is poor, and #8 is in a constant state of starvation, and exposure to air. And guess what, this cylinder is weaker than the rest. However the PCM by doing what it's programmed to do, masks this by matching all the cylinders to the weakest link. #8. Remove the weak link and over the course of the next several miles, the computer gradually relearns that #8 is not as weak anymore and again follows it programming.

Time and time again I have heard and read about how the CCK takes a few days to break in. After digging as much as I could ontrying to explain why, this is what I came up with. What I do not know is if aftermarket tuners have any affect on this or not.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 04:04 PM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

You have a link to the Fuel Cross-Connect Kit? Thanks Kyle

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Early 99 F-250SD 7.3 PSD 4x4. Auto, tymar type intake, straight pipe, Six inch stacks, Tony Wildman Four position chip, Street race, 80 Tow, 80 Econo, Extreme. Let the smoke roll. Upgraded torque converter. Autometer Ultralights on the Pillar. Running Cooper Discover STT's.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-10-2008, 04:16 PM
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Re: Mod Party a Success!!! Runnin 25 PSI Now Thanks To Dino Fuel Alternatives!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordnut74 View Post
Now this is not Hard Fact that I can Quote, but I do remember reading some about it, and have used existing knowledge to deduce some as well. SO here goes my explanation with some background first.

Any object made is made to fall within certain tolerances. On mass produced items like our beloved 250bhp PSD motor are going to far more than say on a turbine part for a jet engine. The higher the tolerances, the less the production costs(less precision costs less). Besides costing less to make, the more tolerance you allow for, the less waste you will have. Again- cheaper. Now you consider all the parts that go into the motor, made to fall within the "is it good enough to work" column and you have a lot of variables. Look at Camshaft stroke and balance, piston height, wrist pin height, centering of bearings, crank bore locations, cylinder ring sealing, deck height, valve lift, pushrod length, rocker geometry, the list goes on. And then we get into the injector itself and all of its parts, P&B, inensifier piston, nozzle, solenoid strength, etc. Now lets look at the HPOP. Again a whole lot of parts that can have an ever so slight tolerance. When put together this all adds up as Tolernace stacking and can become significant. Allow me illustrate it this way. Say has a Carpenter cuts 16 2x4's to 9ft, plus or minus a 1/16th. Well depending on who did the cutting on that day, the saw blade, etc all the boards can be within spec(1/16) but when put end to end could add up to be an inch off, which is way out of tolernace. So you can see how tolernace stacking can add up even when nothing is wrong or out of spec. The the higher the manufacturing tolernaces, the more the potential effect of this.

Anyone who has an AE probably has noticed something called "rotational change velocity". This feature measures in percentage how much rotational velocity is at each cylinder. This is something that the PCM constantly monitors for each cylinder. 0 means that all the cylinders are contributing equally. The higher the number, the more a cylinder is not contributing. While we use this to check on injector performance, it is inteded to monitor cylinder performance. Due to the tolerance stacking mentioned earlier, if all cylinders are treated the same, there could be potentially a significant output differance from your weakest cylinder to your strongest cylinder, but nothing at all wrong. The engineers needed a way to compensate for this. So in came
"rotational change velocity" The computer will attempt to keep all these figures at 0, within a certain tolerance. So obviously we can push the weak link harder, so the computer will bring the others down to match the weak link. Again only within a minimal range. Once the weak link exceeds whatever the predetermined acceptable range is, it will show up on the "RCV" Remember, RCV does not care why a cylinder is not as strong, be it injector, CP, leaking valve, etc.

So finally we get to the moral of the story. As we all already know, thanks in large part by the early work of Hutch, the OEM fuel design is poor, and #8 is in a constant state of starvation, and exposure to air. And guess what, this cylinder is weaker than the rest. However the PCM by doing what it's programmed to do, masks this by matching all the cylinders to the weakest link. #8. Remove the weak link and over the course of the next several miles, the computer gradually relearns that #8 is not as weak anymore and again follows it programming.

Time and time again I have heard and read about how the CCK takes a few days to break in. After digging as much as I could ontrying to explain why, this is what I came up with. What I do not know is if aftermarket tuners have any affect on this or not.
Very good then, makes sense to me.

1994 F-700 Cummins 5.9 12v and Arbortech chip body

1999 International 4900 DT466E w/Allison auto, flatbed 60' rear mount altec am855 boom.

2001 F-350 7.3 4x4 reg cab, single shots, BTS trans,
35" toyo mt's on black 18" KMC addicts

2006 F-350 6.0 4x4 cc lariat, 20" stock wheels with toyo at's....waiting for studs and all that.
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