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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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More injectors

It seems like injector threads are 2nd common to tuning threads but i am having a heck of a time deciding on which injectors. I wanna make 400hp or so and am trying to decide between a 200/30% hybrid or a stage 2 injector. What is the upside and downside to the small hybrid over the stage 2? and what is the upside and downside to the stage 2's? Would i have to upgrade my stock 17 hpop with the stage 2's to make that kind of power? Which one is better for 7000ft elevation and cold winters? And towing through the middle of the rockies?

Anyone with experience with both?

Sorry for all the questions but thanks in advance!

2000 7.3 F-250 4x4 CC/SB Lariat 6-speed, 2.5" leveler and F350 block, Swamps 200/30% injectors, Swamps tunes, GTP-38R, Valair: kevlar/ceramic clutch, 4inch exhaust, AFE stage 2,
DFA-regulated return, pre-pump mods, Isspro boost and pyro, scan gauge, ~420hp and 836tq
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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 02:50 AM
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Re: More injectors

I don't know a whole lot, but the hybrids will use less oil than the stage 2's which is a benefit. Obviously more fuel is a benefit for making power. You have the turbo to handle the hybrids. With all the tuning options available, I don't see any issue with the environmental concerns. I haven't even looked in a while but price would be the main thing that might make you even consider the stage 2's but I'm not sure if there is a big difference or not in price. I don't think the hybrids would be too much for you and can always be tuned down for economy and such.

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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: More injectors

well those small hybrids are rated for the same power output as the stage 2's. And jims 200cc's are around the same price as stage 2's where as swamps 200cc's are about 600 bucks more i believe. Thats why i am having a heck of a time deciding

2000 7.3 F-250 4x4 CC/SB Lariat 6-speed, 2.5" leveler and F350 block, Swamps 200/30% injectors, Swamps tunes, GTP-38R, Valair: kevlar/ceramic clutch, 4inch exhaust, AFE stage 2,
DFA-regulated return, pre-pump mods, Isspro boost and pyro, scan gauge, ~420hp and 836tq
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 03:28 AM
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Re: More injectors

As far as producing that specific power goal goes they are about equal. But if it were me between the two I would go with the small hybrid. It will get the most out of your stock HPOP.

Most Stage II use 100% nozzles.

I would get the 200c hybrid with 80% nozzle. not a 30%. If I choose that size hybrid.

Nozzle size controls the rate of fuel delivered all things being equal.

I see no real reason in hybrids to use anything smaller than 80% nozzle. I myself would choose not to use a nozzle over 30% in a A code (injectors used for Stage I and Stage II). I do not know understand all of the techs of tuning etc but from what I understand becasue of oil ratio a hybrid will be more controllable etc once you get up pass 30% to 80% up nozzles compared to Stage II.

If you ever decide to want more power the 200/80 will likely be good for up to a max of 475-500 with enough air. But will run as good and better than stock at power levels down to stock.


But honestly if it were me I would go with 238cc/80% and call it a day.
They are a standard build injector without machining etc. Its the nozzle that matters as tuning will control the volume. You have a 38R which is a proven great combo with the 238/80 hybrid. You will have stock qualities, as good or better mpg possible, power levels can be tuned down to stock or up as high as you have the air for. In this case close to 475-500. But cant be tuned to anything below that as you wish or need.

This is what I would choose between if it were me:

160cc/30% A Code

238c/80% Hybrid

For your power goal listed the 160cc will be at near maxed the 238cc will have room. With your current air you would have the choice to tune up or down from the max of the 160cc A code with the hybrid. The A code will be maxed so will only be able to go down

This of course does not consider cost or your budget and is only my opinion.
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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 03:30 AM
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Re: More injectors

I see you are looking at Jim's injectors. In that case I would definately look hard at getting the 238/80s.
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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: More injectors

I am looking at both swamps and jims as far as the 200cc hybrids go. For stage 2's i would probably do casserly or unlimited. Are jims 238's good? I saw he has 238/100% but not 238/80%. Reason i didn't as about this injector is because of the power that they will make and i dont want to have to fight egt's at this altitude. I guess i could have them tuned down.

And i have never seen a 200/80% or a 160/30%. I have only seen the 160cc with either stock or a 80% or 100% nozzle.

Im not argueing. Just trying to learn all i can so i dont spend 2k on injectors that dont work for my uses.

HIGHLY appreciate the input so far! thank you!

2000 7.3 F-250 4x4 CC/SB Lariat 6-speed, 2.5" leveler and F350 block, Swamps 200/30% injectors, Swamps tunes, GTP-38R, Valair: kevlar/ceramic clutch, 4inch exhaust, AFE stage 2,
DFA-regulated return, pre-pump mods, Isspro boost and pyro, scan gauge, ~420hp and 836tq
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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 04:12 AM
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Re: More injectors

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Originally Posted by stroker2 View Post
I am looking at both swamps and jims as far as the 200cc hybrids go. For stage 2's i would probably do casserly or unlimited. Are jims 238's good? I saw he has 238/100% but not 238/80%. Reason i didn't as about this injector is because of the power that they will make and i dont want to have to fight egt's at this altitude. I guess i could have them tuned down.

And i have never seen a 200/80% or a 160/30%. I have only seen the 160cc with either stock or a 80% or 100% nozzle.

Im not arguing. Just trying to learn all i can so i dont spend 2k on injectors that dont work for my uses.

HIGHLY appreciate the input so far! thank you!

The reason was price based if that was an issue.

Tuning tuning tuning.

With a mulit tune chip you have have tunes to cover you so egts would never be an issue with a good tuning.

My personal choice for injectors would be Nate @ Unlimited. Not that others are not as good. Look at it this way 238/80 with a 38r will give you the broadest tuning choices for power and the it comes on. As its been explained to me it is always good to have more volume that you need. Compared to emptying another injectors.

Stage I, Stage II, Hybrid, even stock can give you sky high egts without proper tuning.

There are a number of reasons 238/80 are so popular for all kinds of uses.

On the latter two they may not be what you see offered int eh web page but you can get any nozzle size. Consider Swamps does not show 250cc/80%-100% yet plenty of people have them. What is shown is what is popular. My comments are based on speaking with a couple tuners and a few others that have much more expeirnce than I.

One Edit:

Consider a hybrid needs less oil than a A code. The larger the nozzle the more oil you tech want to keep up fuel atomization. So straight up a hybrid uses less. But now compare a A code with a 100% nozzle versus a Hybrid with a 80%.
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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: More injectors

Ok well you have clarified a lot for me and i thank you! I will look into the 238's. I also heard that the 238/80% uses the same amount of oil as a stage 2 am i correct? Or does it have the same stroke or is that the same question? Which injector out of all three of these would get best mpg? And with proper tuning i could tow 20k up a 8% percent grade with egt's in check? I will probably never tow that much but just to be safe i will throw that number out.

2000 7.3 F-250 4x4 CC/SB Lariat 6-speed, 2.5" leveler and F350 block, Swamps 200/30% injectors, Swamps tunes, GTP-38R, Valair: kevlar/ceramic clutch, 4inch exhaust, AFE stage 2,
DFA-regulated return, pre-pump mods, Isspro boost and pyro, scan gauge, ~420hp and 836tq
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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 04:53 AM
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Re: More injectors

I personally dont see any advantage running stage II's vs hybrids.

Stage I's are the only bcode or whatever code they are, injectors i would run, other than hybrids. With stage I's you can get by on a stock 17* HPOP. Stage II's you start needing bigger oil, so by the time you figure in an adrenaline or something of the likes, you could have purchased some 230's or something in that area, and still used your stock HPOP (if its healthy)

Now of course it doesnt hurt to add an aftermarket HPOP to a set of hybrids, but on a bang for the buck power build hybrids win every time IMO.

As for the OP, i would run a set of 238's with 80 nozzles since you mentioned you tow. Detuned those injectors would tow great with manageable EGTs and get 18-20mpg unloaded.

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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 05:12 AM
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Re: More injectors

Stage I's are A-codes, not B-codes, big difference.

As to stage II's vs. 200 hybrids, go for the 200's, stage II's were obsolete when Swamps introduced the 200's, IMO.

PM Dieselfever if you want some good info on towing heavy with Swamps' 200's, he did a clean 400hp with Swamps tunes, a stock 15* HPOP, and a 30% nozzle IIRC.

Dave

ON EDIT: There are reasons why certain nozzles are run on certain sized injectors, but I won't get into that argument.

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