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post #1 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

Bob phoned me today to tell me that my adrenaline pump is on its way...but also mentioned not to expect much gains cause i'm running the DP tuner. Says he's had multiple calls with the 00-03 7.3s running DP and they didnt see any gains. Bob says its the tunes. Anyone have info on this. Hope i didnt just drop $800ca. for nothing.

2002 F-350, S&B intake, 38R tubro w/ wwII, EBV delete, CFM manifold, Spearco i/c, Adrenaline HPOP, Casserly stage I AC injectors , ITP Reg. return, DI Headers, hutch fuel mod, Cooling mist stg. 3, 4" MBRP Exhaust, transflow 46 and 40 gal fuel tanks/tool chest, Tunes by GAP, 4" pc lift, 22" Tis 534 wheels w/37"x 13.5" Dakar MT's, 4.30 gears
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post #2 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 12:58 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

I think what Bob is referring to is that if Jody calls for too much injector pulsewidth, and it wastes a bunch of high pressure oil.

I know a guy who did a datalog with Jody's Live Tuned 60T programming and stage two's. It would go to 7ms of pulsewidth and 85% IPR duty cycle. Nothing was changed but the chips, and the ICP was much more manageable, and the IPR duty cycle went down because the Injectors weren't being turned on for twice as long as they needed to be.

Since when did stage two's need 7ms of pulsewidth to empty?
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post #3 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 01:45 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

HmmmÖ a stir the pot post. Cool. I would not normally respond to something like this but there is so much misinformation that poor Jody deserves someone to defend him on this.
Letís start with what is TRUE:

I never tell a customer that you wonít see any gains. Everyone who puts an Adrenaline on sees something.
2002/2003 models with DP Tuner programming do not feel the full benefits.
The problem with these trucks is NOT a weak stock pump.
You will not fix problem programming with this or any larger pump Ė you will only mask it
These issues are not seen in 1994-2001 trucks with DP Tuner, so it's not across the board
Testing OBS trucks or any model year other than 2002/2003 to see these issues does no one any good. They wonít see this issue.
There are plenty of other reputable programmers that can confirm the problems in the programming.

I have been in contact with Jody on this issue and he is aware there are customers having problems. We'll see if he can make some progress with it. He supposedly installed an Adrenaline (although he did not get it from me, so I cannot confirm that he had one or actually did install it. He has no reason to lie, so I will take him at his word.) I received a phone call back from Jody after his install to let me know that he felt no gains. In fact, he says he saw less than stock results. His truck just happens to be an 2002, I believe. Jody is the ONLY one to install a pump and see no increase, much less no difference. I am assuming he checked for IPR issues, etc. That would the only reason for his results. If he didnít change his programs then it had to be mechanical. Even poor programs will show an increase of something (ICP or drop in DC) with the install of a larger volume pump. Someone please correct me out here if I am wrong, but I havenít heard any such feedback from any purchasing customers that wasnít a troubleshooting issue which was resolved. The HUNDREDS of thank you calls and happy customers are proof enough for me that the Adrenaline is a huge success and makes a tremendous difference. I offered to Jody that I would come and install a new pump, but never heard back. Not sure whatís up with that, but the odds that he got a pump that didnít work upon install are slim to none. We test every one before it leaves here and they donít leave if they donít work. I hope that Jody will continue to work on his programming for those year trucks. There are a lot of his customers that would prefer to stick with him if possible. Theyíve been forced to choose another programmer.

Letís recap: A pump is a fixed displacement mechanical device. It is the constant. Programming is the variable. For some reason, some folks think the opposite. DP Tuner issues are with 2002/2003 only... and they are not a pump issue Ė stock or otherwise. They are a programming issue. It doesn't matter if you have my pump or a stock pump. Larger pumps will mask it - but they certainly won't fix it. Selling a PULSE, Stealth or dual pump system to overcome poor programming is not the answer. Or, I would be selling lots of PULSE pumps. There are very happy DP customers with 1994-2001 year models and my Adrenaline, but the installation of a larger pump simply confirms the problems in the 2002/2003 trucks. These problems are always fixed when the customer chooses a different tuner (and many have). This is complete confirmation that it is programming. Their ďweak pumpĒ didnít become stronger because they got a different tuner.

Anyone not WOT wonít see the issues Ė I believe that is the how the poster justified getting the pump. I believe he said that he never drives his truck at WOT. (OK.) It is only at WOT that the pressures dump off. As soon as you back off the throttle Ė even just a little Ė you can jump right back up in power level and pressures. It is not correct to assume as some are wanting people to believe out here that this type of programming when mixed with a larger pump is the WAY TO GO. Itís laughable and false. To spend well over $1000 more to mask a problem is not my idea of fixing your problem. You wonít see one bit of horsepower gain from this trick. In fact, parasitic losses of the larger pumps might actually pull a few ponies away from you. As people post graphs it becomes more apparent what the problem is. There are lot of programmers out here now. They will be the ones who address this stuff I am sure.

In the mean time, all of my 2002/2003 DP customers will get a phone call to let them know this is not a weak pump issue. I won't sell a pump to anyone who doesn't need it and I'm sure there are tons of people out here who I've talked out of product they didn't need. My main concern is that everyone understands what they need before they spend money. I make no money when I have to talk a customer out of a pump because they have a programming issue. Hence my phone call to the poster who had every opportunity to decline the pump as it was not processed yet. I also make no money on a recommendation to see Tony, Matt, Bill, Edge or any other tuner that has no problem with the 2002/2003 model year. There are plenty of graphs out here with informative data. There are plenty of Adrenaline customers who have switched tuners and may want to chime in. The information has been posted out here before for everyone and you can all view it to come the same conclusions that we have on over 700+ pumps. The only issue we've ever seen is this one. Over and over and over....

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE: I sell pumps options. They make a HUGE difference in the performance of our trucks and everyone should be able to feel it. I don't care who tunes the truck. I just want to sell pumps. I don't want there to be any reason that I wouldn't be able to sell a pump to a perspective customer. I want EVERYONE to be able to tune correctly. It is in my best interest that Jody gets this right. Iíll be able to sell pumps instead of having to talk people out of them until they fix their problems. This is A LOT of time taken out of our business to call customers and diagnose them before any final sale. We do it for our customers.

On a side note: We are very sorry that we havenít found time to put up testimonials. We are still 50 pumps backlogged (about two more weeks) and count is well over 700. We WILL get customer feedback up over the winter. We just havenít had time.


Bob
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post #4 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 02:34 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but are you saying that people with 02/03's and have DP Tunes aren't programmed correctly?? Considering I have both....just curious.

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post #5 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 02:37 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELSITE View Post
HmmmÖ a stir the pot post. Cool. I would not normally respond to something like this but there is so much misinformation that poor Jody deserves someone to defend him on this.
Letís start with what is TRUE:

I never tell a customer that you wonít see any gains. Everyone who puts an Adrenaline on sees something.
2002/2003 models with DP Tuner programming do not feel the full benefits.

The problem with these trucks is NOT a weak stock pump.
You will not fix problem programming with this or any larger pump Ė you will only mask it
These issues are not seen in 1994-2001 trucks with DP Tuner, so it's not across the board
Testing OBS trucks or any model year other than 2002/2003 to see these issues does no one any good. They wonít see this issue.
There are plenty of other reputable programmers that can confirm the problems in the programming.

I have been in contact with Jody on this issue and he is aware there are customers having problems. We'll see if he can make some progress with it. He supposedly installed an Adrenaline (although he did not get it from me, so I cannot confirm that he had one or actually did install it. He has no reason to lie, so I will take him at his word.) I received a phone call back from Jody after his install to let me know that he felt no gains. In fact, he says he saw less than stock results. His truck just happens to be an 2002, I believe. Jody is the ONLY one to install a pump and see no increase, much less no difference. I am assuming he checked for IPR issues, etc. That would the only reason for his results. If he didnít change his programs then it had to be mechanical. Even poor programs will show an increase of something (ICP or drop in DC) with the install of a larger volume pump. Someone please correct me out here if I am wrong, but I havenít heard any such feedback from any purchasing customers that wasnít a troubleshooting issue which was resolved. The HUNDREDS of thank you calls and happy customers are proof enough for me that the Adrenaline is a huge success and makes a tremendous difference. I offered to Jody that I would come and install a new pump, but never heard back. Not sure whatís up with that, but the odds that he got a pump that didnít work upon install are slim to none. We test every one before it leaves here and they donít leave if they donít work. I hope that Jody will continue to work on his programming for those year trucks. There are a lot of his customers that would prefer to stick with him if possible. Theyíve been forced to choose another programmer.

Letís recap: A pump is a fixed displacement mechanical device. It is the constant. Programming is the variable. For some reason, some folks think the opposite. DP Tuner issues are with 2002/2003 only... and they are not a pump issue Ė stock or otherwise. They are a programming issue. It doesn't matter if you have my pump or a stock pump. Larger pumps will mask it - but they certainly won't fix it. Selling a PULSE, Stealth or dual pump system to overcome poor programming is not the answer. Or, I would be selling lots of PULSE pumps. There are very happy DP customers with 1994-2001 year models and my Adrenaline, but the installation of a larger pump simply confirms the problems in the 2002/2003 trucks. These problems are always fixed when the customer chooses a different tuner (and many have). This is complete confirmation that it is programming. Their ďweak pumpĒ didnít become stronger because they got a different tuner.

Anyone not WOT wonít see the issues Ė I believe that is the how the poster justified getting the pump. I believe he said that he never drives his truck at WOT. (OK.) It is only at WOT that the pressures dump off. As soon as you back off the throttle Ė even just a little Ė you can jump right back up in power level and pressures. It is not correct to assume as some are wanting people to believe out here that this type of programming when mixed with a larger pump is the WAY TO GO. Itís laughable and false. To spend well over $1000 more to mask a problem is not my idea of fixing your problem. You wonít see one bit of horsepower gain from this trick. In fact, parasitic losses of the larger pumps might actually pull a few ponies away from you. As people post graphs it becomes more apparent what the problem is. There are lot of programmers out here now. They will be the ones who address this stuff I am sure.

In the mean time, all of my 2002/2003 DP customers will get a phone call to let them know this is not a weak pump issue. I won't sell a pump to anyone who doesn't need it and I'm sure there are tons of people out here who I've talked out of product they didn't need. My main concern is that everyone understands what they need before they spend money. I make no money when I have to talk a customer out of a pump because they have a programming issue. Hence my phone call to the poster who had every opportunity to decline the pump as it was not processed yet. I also make no money on a recommendation to see Tony, Matt, Bill, Edge or any other tuner that has no problem with the 2002/2003 model year. There are plenty of graphs out here with informative data. There are plenty of Adrenaline customers who have switched tuners and may want to chime in. The information has been posted out here before for everyone and you can all view it to come the same conclusions that we have on over 700+ pumps. The only issue we've ever seen is this one. Over and over and over....

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE: I sell pumps options. They make a HUGE difference in the performance of our trucks and everyone should be able to feel it. I don't care who tunes the truck. I just want to sell pumps. I don't want there to be any reason that I wouldn't be able to sell a pump to a perspective customer. I want EVERYONE to be able to tune correctly. It is in my best interest that Jody gets this right. Iíll be able to sell pumps instead of having to talk people out of them until they fix their problems. This is A LOT of time taken out of our business to call customers and diagnose them before any final sale. We do it for our customers.

On a side note: We are very sorry that we havenít found time to put up testimonials. We are still 50 pumps backlogged (about two more weeks) and count is well over 700. We WILL get customer feedback up over the winter. We just havenít had time.


Bob
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just confused. If programming is the problem, then what was wrong with the pump Jody had? If programming is the problem, how does the adrenaline pump mask anything?

09 F450 6.4 PSD 5r110 4x4, H&S XRT Pro, Edge CTS Insight
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post #6 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 02:47 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELSITE View Post
I want EVERYONE to be able to tune correctly. It is in my best interest that Jody gets this right. Iíll be able to sell pumps instead of having to talk people out of them until they fix their problems. This is A LOT of time taken out of our business to call customers and diagnose them before any final sale. We do it for our customers.

Bob

It seems to me that it would be more in Jody's best interest to figure it out, because if he doesn't more people will be switching to other tuning options. A chip is much easier to replace than a high pressure oil pump, and I think that you have proven that your pump works. As you said, there is no variable in the pump. It is a fixed displacement. It either works or it doesn't.

This is a serious question...

Are you saying that it is all 2002/03 trucks that are having an issue or just DP Tuned trucks in that particular model year?

What kind of problems were these 02/03 Dp Tuned trucks having to make them want to switch to another tuner? Low ICP? IPR duty cycle? Driveability? Smoke?
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post #7 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 02:52 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmity View Post
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just confused. If programming is the problem, then what was wrong with the pump Jody had? If programming is the problem, how does the adrenaline pump mask anything?
I think that Bob made it clear that IF It was a pump issue, that he was going to make it right with Jody. BUT, he also see's issues with Jodys tuning in those particular model years, so maybe it is more of something that Jody needs to go out and do some investigative live tuning on his own truck to see the benefits.
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post #8 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 03:27 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

What is the differance between an 00/01 model to a 02/03?

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post #9 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 03:40 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner


We only carry the BEST parts and never compromise just to get a sale.

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post #10 of 506 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 03:50 PM
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Re: Adrenaline w/ Dp tuner

The Adrenaline pump was tested on my 2003 Excursion. Jody could not go and spend a week or 2 at our customers place so it was shipped to us to test here. The data logs were thoroughly gone through and analyzed before Bob was given the data.

Jody kept Bob abreast of the testing he was going to do. Bob knew weeks before that Jody was getting the pump and he was putting it on my Excursion. Jody did not ask Bob for a pump to test because he did not want to bother him with it. It is our responsibility to make sure we have tunes correctly set up for our customer trucks. The majority of our customers trucks are a 2000-2003 with stock injectors.

The testing of the adrenaline pump was preformed for one of our customers. We will NOT post any information about our testing without the consent of our customer.

A youtube video was setup to send Bob and at that time Bob rebutted anything that Jody found.

It may be the particular one we received. That can only be determined when the pump is tested for tolerances.


Bob, you can't come here and work out of our garage. We have laws here in Jackson County, Ga that prohibits us from letting you do that. Other arrangements would have had to be made for you to come and install a new pump. Jody has been busy for a while now since he did this testing and just this past week has to hold down the office by himself due to me being ill.

You have Jody's data. If you don't think its right then lets try the same pump on the same setup, different truck.

I am back to my stock pump and my truck kicks. My fuel milage went back up also. 11 with the Adrenaline and 19 with my stock pump.

We are really disheartened by your post when Jody kept you involved during the testing process.


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