^^^^^^ I think everyone understands that the star pattern is what Charles has described.
But here's the problem that no one wants to address:
Originally Posted by aggie
I have seen a bone stock motor with marks outside the bowl, no chip or anything. Not NEAR as apparent as that, but ive seen it.
Originally Posted by stroked
i have also seen that on a bone stock 7.3 came out of a small e-350 van/bus
Originally Posted by Swamp
On bone stock engines that never even had a chip on them, the injector spray pattern on the pistons looks like it is 1/2 out of the bowl on top of the pistons.
So if this is happening, why do we still play the finger pointing game? (yes, the game that everyone knows what I'm talking about)
A novel idea, let's figure out why it's possible that we can have a star pattern on a bone stock truck to begin with. After all, just about every tuner out there (regardless of brand) is adding fuel in one program or another. So if the damn engine is already spraying halfway out the bowl to begin with, we can all figure out what happens when we make it worse with a chip or programmer, and start throwing more fuel into the mix.
So with that said, let's go back to Charles' post: "too much fuel, too soon is the culprit". I think that couldn't be any more true. We'll call this "The Charles Equation"
. If the timing is already there, all the chips and programmers are now just completing the first part - too much fuel. From that point on, it's just a waiting game.
We've all seen posts where stock PMR
motors are chunking rods at 300 hp (stock truck with nothing more than a chip or programmer), and it's even been done with some of the "big brands" like Edge, Banks, Hypertech, etc, as well as a few of our PSN local favorite brands. Heck, we've seen the occasional post in the past about forged rods taking an exit at 300 hp. And there's even the occasional engine that blows up without a chip or tuner.... just bone stock as the day it was brand new.
So, is timing a problem that's causing the star pattern? Yes, we can all agree on that. But Charles nailed it with including the fueling part too, as that's what's going to determine what breaks, and what stays alive. So now we aren't looking at timing in regards to tunes as the problem, but instead (and here's another novel idea), let's look at the fueling! OMG, that was so difficult!
For example... a customer orders a chip, and they tell their favorite tuner that they want smoke, lots of it. So the tuner obliges to the customer's wishes and makes a tune that will blot the sky. Well, the timing issue already exists, and now we are adding huge gobs of fuel...... Then the customer goes out, and proceeds to kill every living polar bear and penguin he can find, continuously dumping lots of fuel, unknowing to him he has timing issues straight from the Ford factory, and thus he has successfully completed "The Charles Equation"
The point of my post is that people are still trying to point the finger and play the blame game, without sitting down and figuring out exactly what's going on. So, let's discuss it, and see if we can figure out why some people have found a star pattern on a bone stock motor with bone stock Ford programming. If we can figure that out, then everything will be come clear.
If we already have a pre-existing timing issue.... then the actual root problem is fueling.... wrap your collective heads around that concept, and let it sink in.
So now.... how many tuners were ever aware 2+ years ago of the possiblity of a pre-existing timing issue straight from Ford? My guess is not many. You wouldn't have discovered it until you see thread after thread of "star patterns", or done some extensive diagnostic work, or testing, etc. Even then, it might not have been apparent right away. So is it really the tuner's fault? After all, this whole timing thing has been the "flavor of the month" for a short time, and the star pattern issue has not really surfaced in any forum until recently. My point is, we have only recently discovered this, despite what everyone's ego wants to believe.
K, have fun shredding my post apart