Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production? - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

I posted this in another thread but I figured amidst Charles' long posts it would get lost so here is my message:

Well in my opinion if you are smoking you are not only wasting fuel but you could be saving one thing that is important on a HEUI truck..... HP OIL CAPACITY! If you are pumping a bunch of fuel in after Top Dead Center and not generating anything but heat and smoke, that fuel isn't doing you any good, so why not save the fuel and more importantly HPOP oil and run at a higher ICP which will make more power because you can empty the injector faster in the "window" you have to actually use the fuel..... This will generate more torque and horsepower across the board. You have to dance with fuel pulsewidth vs Oil pressure on trucks without extra HPOP capacity... Even on a truck with stock ADs and a fresh 17 degree hpop!

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If you have nozzles that were Extrude honed over and over and over again. It will look like a porn stars ass.hole where the pintle is supposed to seal.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:18 PM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

I saw your earlier post of this Matt, and I have to agree. It's common to experience laggy turbo response with too much fuel at the low end. I also agree that higher ICP, while keeping the stock HPOP system happy, is key. Granted, noisier, but very important nonetheless.

Smoke may be fun, but what does it accomplish? It usually pisses people off or looks cool, but why have excess. Obviously, it takes fuel to make power and it takes air to burn the fuel, but where does one draw the line between how much fuel is needed to light the turbocharger most effectively and how much can one back off of the fuel and maintain (or increase) HP?

I think we agree that not enough HPOP causes excessive smoke. I think it's why the better "10K Mod" modules out there work as well as they do...especially in the mid-level settings. There is enough HPO to not cause a check engine light (and subsequent default to preset IPR DC%), but you're still getting decent power gains.

I can see that I have strayed far away from your original thoughts so I think I will stop here before I start talking about different brands of cat litter.

Gale Banks says:
Black smoke is bad...unless you clean it up with 12 progressive stages of N2O.

Cody
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

My point is that if you are smoking and only holding 2300 psi with the IPR all the way closed..... why not pull the pulsewidth back and empty more fuel sooner thus making the injector effectively faster by running 2800 psi?
A happy engine at WOT is a happy engine.... what noise were you referring to?

Matt Robinson
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If you have nozzles that were Extrude honed over and over and over again. It will look like a porn stars ass.hole where the pintle is supposed to seal.
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:05 PM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

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Originally Posted by mattr66 View Post
.....and more importantly HPOP oil and run at a higher ICP which will make more power because you can empty the injector faster
the injector flowbench doesn't support this statement.

As much as I'd LOVE to empty xxx cc's in x ms...increasing the pressure doesn't increase the flow much...and in many cases, flow drops above certain pressure.

everyone likes to say "speak up" if you know something...and folks get hung up in a circular logic triangle where some folks contend that no information is exchanged...or "given" away...

well, there it is.

We've been running 2800-3000psi max for years...for a reason.

take care~

Dave
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:49 PM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

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Originally Posted by cleatus12r View Post
Gale Banks says:
Black smoke is bad...unless you clean it up with 12 progressive stages of N2O.
. You dont say?

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:03 AM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

I can appreciate BOTH points of view. Dave, thank you for your input. Fluid dynamics support your findings. Matt, it stands to reason EXACTLY what you are saying. I believe that you AND Dave are on the right track with the 2800 PSI mark.

There's a limit to how much ICP you want, but I feel that the "smaller power number people" (the ones in MY demographic) are fully happy with the increases that don't involve a ton of black smoke anyway....they just want a more responsive truck that has a bit more get-up. Increasing the ICP moderately is a GREAT way to do it....more power with less smoke than simply jacking up the FDCS PW and hoping that the HPOP can deal......

I really scared myself with that "more power with less smoke" statement. I KNOW I've read that somewhere.....but it's true.

Cody
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:25 AM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

With tolerances being far from tight, IMO, from the factory(alliant) it's no surprise that higher pressures cause erratic fuel delivery.

There's prolly a happy point with each set of custom built injectors that a bench would show even delivery at high RPM and ICP. But how many people ask what ICP their injectors were flowed at and what was the spread between all 8?

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:16 AM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

unlike a gas or alcohol engine, diesels make their power on the lean side.

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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:23 AM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

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Originally Posted by golfer View Post
the injector flowbench doesn't support this statement.
Hey Dave,

I get that the flow rate doesn't improve much beyond 2800psi, but does the flowbench show any appreciable gains between ~2300psi and ~2800psi?
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:31 AM
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Re: Making a 7.3 Smoke..... Bad for Power Production?

Diesel engines for the most part will make black smoke while still lean of stoichiometric, this is called the black smoke limit of the motor, usually around 18:1. You can make more power by going beyond the black smoke limit because you are still lean of stoich.
The newest motors w/ dual CP3's, and not running any egr can probably push the smoke limit down close to stoich but I don't think the 7.3 is capable of it.
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