EGT acceptable Max - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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EGT acceptable Max

I know that this question has been asked before. I have searched the internet and read most of them. I am looking for a link to some definitive source.

I need advice on EGTs. I recently installed a Dr Performance chip. It is an add on chip that plugs into the IPC sensor and ties into the MAP sensor. I bought it for the advertised up to 15% MPG increase. They also claim that there will be no increase in EGTs and that it can be used all the time even when towing. I installed a pyrometer even though Dr Performance claimed that it wasn’t needed and I also install a 4” exhaust and a K&N air filter. I tested the chip by pulling a trailer with the trailer empty (11,000 GVW) and full (20,000 GVW). With the empty trailer I had a hard time maintaining the speed limit without the EGTs climbing over 1200F. I unplugged the chip and with the empty trailer the EGTs stayed under 1200F even during full throttle. I plugged the chip back in and with the trailer full it was a real struggle to keep the EGTs to less than 1300F. On one steep 1-mile long grade I had to gradually slow down to 25MPH in second gear to stay less than 1300F.

I contacted Dr Perfomance and asked for an RMA. Whitney Goeders responded and I quote:
“it sounds like its operating normally. 1200 degrees module or not, is actually warmed to operating temperatures. Now when you get into the 15-1600 range is a little high but not enough to do damage. Damage will not occur until 2100 degrees on that style of diesel engine.” ( I have a 2001 F350 with an intercooled 7.3 automatic.)

What are acceptable EGTs?

The truck has 90K miles. I have installed a 4” exhaust, K&N filter and replaced and double clamped the intercooler hoses. I have read the ODBII and there are no codes. (Except for High injection pressure caused by the chip)

If I can get DR Performance to take the chip back which chip would you recommend to replace it. I would like a chip that is user programmable so that I can write my own custom tune to run hydrogen (HHO). I need to some how retard the timing and lean fuel/air mix.
Any advice will be appreciated,
Mars
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:49 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

I cant say for sure about the EGT's, but I swear by the chip that I bought from DP-Tuner. Jody and Diane are great people and their products are top notch. They have towing programs as well as performance tunes, not to mention I have seen a great increase in fuel milage while driving in th Econo tune. They are a PSN sponsor and Diane posts on here as SeeYa, or you can read about their stuff at

www.dp-tuner.com


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:50 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Do NOT LISTEN TO THAT ASS HAT. 1250 can be run all day.. with short bursts upto 1600. but not for longer than a few seconds. Get rid of that dr performance junk and get a DP Tuner. Lower EGT's and the best chip out there.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

The newer diesels will run up to 1400 degrees max but I do not recommend that you do it for prolonged period of time with your 7.3L. We tell people for towing safety not to go above 1300 for any length of time. If your pulling a hill and are close to the top and just getting to 1300 that's not a big deal. Now racing it's a whole different picture but do not confuse the two.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 04:10 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Dr. Performance is trash. And if you bought the K&N drop in filter that fits in the stock airbox, get rid of it. Those are notorious for allowing dirt past the outer seals.

And this:
Quote:
I contacted Dr Perfomance and asked for an RMA. Whitney Goeders responded and I quote:
“it sounds like its operating normally. 1200 degrees module or not, is actually warmed to operating temperatures. Now when you get into the 15-1600 range is a little high but not enough to do damage. Damage will not occur until 2100 degrees on that style of diesel engine.”
They OBVIOUSLY have no clue what is going on. International states that EGT redline is 1250 degrees for our engines. That is the max "sustained" EGT temp. Meaning if you are below 1250, you are fine. If you are above 1250 degrees for an extended period of time (such as towing up a long grade for several miles), you are at risk of melting your pistons. You can go above 1250 degrees in short bursts, such as drag racing or sled pull competitions, without worrying about engine damage.

You need to get rid of the Dr. Performance and get a good chip with a safe and reliable tow setting. That will allow you to tow with extra power, but keep EGT's in check. Gauges are always important, so you were smart for installing them. One question though, did you install the pyro probe before the turbo (exhaust manifold or up-pipe), or did you install it after the turbo in the downpipe? If it's in the downpipe after the turbo, that's another big no-no. EGT readings are no good post-turbo.

Quote:
I have read the ODBII and there are no codes. (Except for High injection pressure caused by the chip)
If it's the P1211 code, it's caused from low injection pressure (ICP pressure), not high pressure. Stock HPOP's struggle to keep up with what most chips, tuners, and even ICP foolers ask for. Low ICP pressure doesn't hurt anything, it just means that the HPOP can't supply enough high pressure oil to get the full benefit from your chip.

Curtis
2002 F-250 PSD
Gambling with 250/200's on PMR's.
478hp/851tq on Haller's dyno - 7/28/12
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 04:15 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Quote:
Originally Posted by mars1952 View Post
I know that this question has been asked before. I have searched the internet and read most of them. I am looking for a link to some definitive source.

I need advice on EGTs. I recently installed a Dr Performance chip. It is an add on chip that plugs into the IPC sensor and ties into the MAP sensor. I bought it for the advertised up to 15&#37; MPG increase. They also claim that there will be no increase in EGTs and that it can be used all the time even when towing. I installed a pyrometer even though Dr Performance claimed that it wasn’t needed and I also install a 4” exhaust and a K&N air filter. I tested the chip by pulling a trailer with the trailer empty (11,000 GVW) and full (20,000 GVW). With the empty trailer I had a hard time maintaining the speed limit without the EGTs climbing over 1200F. I unplugged the chip and with the empty trailer the EGTs stayed under 1200F even during full throttle. I plugged the chip back in and with the trailer full it was a real struggle to keep the EGTs to less than 1300F. On one steep 1-mile long grade I had to gradually slow down to 25MPH in second gear to stay less than 1300F.
Just for clarification, the Dr. Performance/Workhorse, Edge Juice, etc. Are NOT "chips". I'm not trying to be an ass. But, the problem with companies that advertise that an EGT probe is not required are blatantly lying. The stock programming in these trucks is designed to maintain a specific amount of reliability and limit itself to certain operating parameters. 1200 degrees is not unheard of with stock programming, but it takes a lot of trying to get there. Anytime more fuel is commanded, be it by programming (custom chips or reflashes) or corrupt signals to the PCM (your Dr. Performance module), you run the risk of easily exceeding 1200 degrees (like you found out). The ICP-foolers out there CAN increase economy, but they don't do any favors for the automatic transmission.


I agree with Oilfield Digger on temps....they are right in the ballpark. (oh, and Curtis too....but he beat me to the reply.)

Cody
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Hello Again:
Thanks for the quick responses. I forgot to mention that I installed the pyrometer in the drivers side exhaust manifold.

I just crawled under the truck and inspected the exhaust "y" up pipes. They look clean as much as I can see. I ran my hand over them and it came back with no soot. I can't hear any turbo or exhaust leaks. When I put my foot down I can hear the turbo spool up.

I have a Huge NAPA (Tymar) filter waiting to be installed.

I don't have a boost gauge installed but I recently had access to a OBDII gauge setup and the the max boost after a test drag race was 25PSI

I am wondering about the Exhaust Back Pressure Valve. It seem to be working and hasn't thrown any codes but it is the only thing that I can think of that would cause increased EGTs.

I don't remember the exact code but the text read hi or low injection pressure.
Mars
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 05:55 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Its the garbage fooler you got that is causing increased EGT's.. Phone back the guy from Dr. Performance and ask him if you melt your motor due to his chip if he will buy you a new engine. If so get it on paper. If so then run it all day at 1600 deg.


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 06:55 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

You may want to ask them why every single one of my pistons had a minimum of 2 cracks leaving the bowls and most had 3 cracks and the engine never saw more than 1800 degrees.

Apparently no damage will be done until 2100....



I don't personally tow at anything over 1150. No reason to.

Honestly, if your tow program runs more than that at WOT you need a new one, or figure out what's wrong with the engine. At 1000 to 1150 degrees max at WOT for continuous duty I was making more power than the driveline could cope with. I melted tow u-joints within 200 miles (pushed the needles into the trunions) and scorched the rear axle fluid as well as the tranny and t-case fluid. As in, drove to the farm and checked the diff fluid (mag hytec cover) and it was black and smelled like hell. I had to use a bunch of rags just to touch the dipstick handle. When I got back home I changed out the fluid and the very next weekend did the exact same thing again running down to the farm. In a single trip I destroyed the fluid twice. I also replaced the rear u-joint after both trips as well because it was sloppy and as I said, upon inspection the trunions were grooved where the needles had embedded themselves. I didn't catch the tranny or t-case fluid until much later when it was already charcoal black.

I was making 305-310rwhp in that program on the dyno. That was with the GTP38R running a sustained boost of 25-28psi for hours on end everywhere except on the downhills (for reasons of excessive speed).

EGT shouldn't ever be an issue for a properly setup tow truck. You should be able to mat it and forget it. The issue should be differential, and transmission temperatures.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: EGT acceptable Max

Quote:
Originally Posted by mars1952 View Post
Hello Again:
Thanks for the quick responses. I forgot to mention that I installed the pyrometer in the drivers side exhaust manifold.

I just crawled under the truck and inspected the exhaust "y" up pipes. They look clean as much as I can see. I ran my hand over them and it came back with no soot. I can't hear any turbo or exhaust leaks. When I put my foot down I can hear the turbo spool up.

I have a Huge NAPA (Tymar) filter waiting to be installed.

I don't have a boost gauge installed but I recently had access to a OBDII gauge setup and the the max boost after a test drag race was 25PSI

I am wondering about the Exhaust Back Pressure Valve. It seem to be working and hasn't thrown any codes but it is the only thing that I can think of that would cause increased EGTs.

I don't remember the exact code but the text read hi or low injection pressure.
Mars
Your EGT is acting normally. More fuel=more heat (moreso on an essentially stock engine). The Dr. Performance module is giving you MORE FUEL.

P1211 is "Injection control pressure higher or lower than desired". It's normal for this code to set because the Injection Pressure Regulator determines Injection Control Pressure. If the Dr. Performance module fools the ICP input to the engine's computer (PCM) that the ICP is 500 PSI lower than desired, the PCM will compensate by adding more injection control pressure and the check engine light may come on. The "desired" table is part of tuning software and can be changed....as well as the IPR duty cycle. Your fueling module does none of that. It takes advantage of that 1000 PSI window (+/-500 PSI).

Cody
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