Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08 - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
Lost refugee from TDS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 34
Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

In another thread regarding CCV mods, a member (Howie) brought up some concerned about upcoming new diesel engine smog testing and inspections.

The tests and inspections would be mandated by the State of California, on a biennial basis, retroactive to earlier model diesels (even those without DPFs when mfr'd).

The proposed testing and inspection specfically identifies light duty pickups owned by private individuals, not just agencies and fleets, not just medium duty trucks that are commercially used.

Vehicle registration renewals, as well as vehicle title transfers, would first require passing the BAR developed test and inspection, similar to what gasoline fueled vehicles are already subject to.

Under current law, diesel powered pickups under 14,000 gvwr have been exempt.

Under the new proposed law, Assembly Bill 1488, authored by State Assemblyman Tom Mendoza of California, this is about to change.

The bill has already passed in the Assembly after 3 rounds of revisions, and is currently (as of last Thursday, September 6, 2007) under committee hearing in the State Senate.

There are several more steps prior to this bill being codified into law, since it has yet to be voted on before the Senate. Therefore, now would be the time to offer whatever input or insight you might have to the Senator of your District.

It is improbable that your elected representative would have much sympathy for your desire to run a hot chip.

However, to the extent that passing or failing a future emissions test would present an unpredictable and sudden economic hardship on a contractor who requires his or her truck to make a living, cannot afford a new truck, and as a non-expert could not predict how the stock vehicle in stock trim would perform under testing that had not yet even been devised at the time the vehicle was engineered, manufactured, purchased, and placed into service... you may then have a case worth hearing.

What is currently proposed is a "study" test period for two years, from 2009 through 2011, with the goal of full implementation of the testing and inspection program in force by 2012.

Here are some links to give you some background information on AB1488 and it's progress this year through the California legislative system:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil..._sen_comm.html

http://lgdb.com/bill/show/7744-Calif...Check_Program_

http://www.legisweb.net/calm/model/R...007:ab1488:doc


If you do have any input, the time to say it is now, to your State Senator, because it won't do any good to say it to the clerk at the counter of the DMV two years from now.

I'd have posted this information in the other thread, where this topic was first raised, but since the other thread was really about CCV mods, I didn't want to clutter that topic.

I personally am delighted that diesel emissions are being cleaned up. I always hated to be stuck driving behind diesel city buses spewing out black smoke... and to top it off only one or two passengers would be inside. A van or an airporter type vehicle would cost less to acquire, less to maintain, and less to fuel up for lightly travelled bus routes. Well, thankfully some cities are finally doing that, and it's great.

But not everyone lives in the city. And not everyone can afford a new truck every five years. And not everyone can stand to have big brother poking around under their hoods, in their cabs, and in their livelihoods.

While we all share the same air, city or country, and we all have to cooperate together to protect that air, we must also look realistically on exactly who is polluting that air most, and what is being done about that.

When big business can literally buy "pollution credits" as perfectly acceptable "mitigation factors" so that they can continue to pollute as before, that doesn't make our air any cleaner. That only makes state budgets swell larger. And those swelled budgets pay salaries to cubicle bound bureacrats that often lack a sense of balance that some broader life experience might have otherwise afforded them.

And it is balance that must be considered here, when creating regulations such as what AB1488 proposes. Perhaps, with the study period and phase in, that balance has been adequately acheived. What do you think about it?

Read up on it, using the handy and comprehensive links I provided above, and after reading, post up what you think (and what you'll do, if anything).
Robyn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
Lost refugee from TDS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 34
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

Incidently, later revisions of the bill may have altered the initial BAR study period and phase in, changed the full implementation date to January 1, 2010, made isolations of particular GVWR classes, including requiring inspections of vehicles below 8,501 GVWR, exempting vehicles between 8,501 and 13,999 GVWR (temporarily), and picking up again with GVWRs 14,000 and above.

I'll need to review which version I've read before posting further... but anyway, this law is being created now, so it might be of interest.
Robyn is offline  
post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 09:06 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 319
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

I can see them making emissions test required for older vehicles but honestly don't see them makeing the older vehicles meet the same standards as the newer ones. The technology just isn't there. Even if you put particulate filters on them the combustion chamber designs and intake and exhaust designs etc. just weren't designed with the emissions in mind of the current vehicles on the new car lots. It's rediculous for them to even consider that.

Is this just a California thing or is it a national thing? I realize if it starts somewhere it will most likely migrate everywhere but will take much longer.
hotwheels is offline  
 
post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 09:25 PM
PSN Veteran
 
thetonka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 958
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

The nation usually follows California so what goes here eventually goes in other states or federal.

I would say that the most likely solution if we have to go to a sniffer is to get the tuners to put together a smog check tune. I will definitely be looking at an F5 now as having lived in Cali all my life I would bet nothing will stop this. Nothing but the junk science and emotions supplied by the California Eco nuts matter out here in Cali.

2001 F350 CC LB 4X4
TN, AIS, DP 80hp, ITP boost elim, Magnaflow 4".
Tows the big white hauler.

When life gives you Lemons, throw them at the stupid people.
thetonka is offline  
post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 09:32 PM
PSN Veteran
 
thetonka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 958
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

After reading these its obvious what the pilot program is. They are going to be collecting data to support permanent smog checks, or mandated older diesel upgrades, or worse the banning of our trucks all together. I know those scenarios sound extreme and unlikely but remember this is California where we now have a politician asking for Fast Food restaurants bans in LA because certain neighborhoods have a high rate of obesity.

Arnold needs to get off his @$$ and get the alternative fueling station program moving. If I could get Bio-diesel regularly I would. I know if these smog check pilot program goes into effect I will be looking for that smog check program from Jody and a full tank of B100. Now if that will help is a different story.

2001 F350 CC LB 4X4
TN, AIS, DP 80hp, ITP boost elim, Magnaflow 4".
Tows the big white hauler.

When life gives you Lemons, throw them at the stupid people.
thetonka is offline  
post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
Lost refugee from TDS
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 34
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

While retrofitting light duties has been discussed in California for the last decade, what is on the legsilative table today is just testing to determine if the vehicles acheive a pre-ordained standard in the as-originally-manufactured condition.

But there could be trouble for individual owners, because over time, a used, high mileage diesel engine may not be able to acheive the same standard it might have easily acheived when it rolled off the line. And since average unmodified diesel engines, and the trucks that they are installed in, can often be operated 100 to 200K more miles than the average gasoline powered automobile, the useful life of such vehicles might be terminated unexpectedly early for the farmer who bought the truck with the expectation of being able to operate it for 400K miles before replacement.

The gasoline smog program in California has forced many vehicles off the road. Over the last 25 years, I personally have lost the use and value of seven UNMODIFED, bone stock, otherwise perfectly running vehicles as a result of failing smog tests. These fully operable vehicles had to be junked/parted out.

I certainly can appreciate the cleaner air, despite the increase in population, that the smog program has brought to California, but I wonder if the overall environment is worse off, due to natural resources expended and the industrial pollution involved in making and delivering the new vehicles that had to be manufactured to replace my old ones, which I might otherwise still be operating.

One sometimes has to evaluate the motivation for laws, and the exceptions to the law, to see who the real benefiting parties are. Is it "we the people?" Or is it "we ll connected?"

AB1488 applies to the State of California only.

Recently, however, federal law followed California's lead with respect to diesel emissions. The ultra low sulpher fuel now mandated around the country is an example of the feds following CARBs direction in policy making. They even called it the "California 2007", back several years ago.

Getting back to AB1488, it looks like diesel pickups from 1997 forward will be affected.
Robyn is offline  
post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 09:50 PM
PSN Veteran
 
thetonka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 958
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

I have lived in Cali all my life and have fought the pre-78 car crush initiatives several times. I fully understand. I have also been here long enough to remember summers when the smog was so bad we spent most of the day inside, and even the nights. We lived about 2 miles from the hills and Glendora(east LA county) air quality was so bad we could not see them. Times have changed dramatically and an area that used to see serious smog alerts every day all summer long rarely sees them anymore. The air quality is SIGNIFICANTLY better than it was in the 70s and 80s.

With 237K on my truck and what I assume are the original injectors I am definatlely seeing the effects of miles. I suspect that the ULSD has accelerated the damage because last year I hardly smoked unless I wanted to, now even with the bigger turbo I smoke almost constantly.

IMHO Bio-diesel is the only viable solution at this time, that is if they can actually get it to us. This does exclude the new trucks tho. There is no good solution and I am really getting tired after so many years fighting stupid legislation that would have little to no effect.

2001 F350 CC LB 4X4
TN, AIS, DP 80hp, ITP boost elim, Magnaflow 4".
Tows the big white hauler.

When life gives you Lemons, throw them at the stupid people.
thetonka is offline  
post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 10:06 PM
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 5,909
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

Our 7.3's can burn pretty clean with the right tuning. I have B codes, and I'm not worried about passing an emissions test. The only thing that bothers me, is the political crap of getting the truck smogged(more time and another bill).
TerminatorEngineering is offline  
post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 10:18 PM
<-- it's like that
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 6,567
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

We already have emissions testing for diesels here in several Colorado counties, so this is nothing new.

It's just a basic opacity and snap test. The tolerances for most diesels are pretty loose, so even the old non-turbo diesels can pass as long as there's nothing majorly wrong with them. Any truck running right and without significant problems can pass. That's pretty much the same as any other emissions test anywhere in the country regardless of fuel type. Rules are stricter for the newer trucks with the DPF's, which is expected I guess. But old diesels are not required to meet the same specs as the newer ones.

As for chips or tuners, just program or flip to the lowest HP setting or stock setting. Almost every single chip or tuner has this feature. I've passed every time running in the 40hp tow setting, and with better opacity results than many stock trucks.

And the CCV mod.... here in Colorado we are supposed to have it routed as it came from the factory. However I've passed several times now with the CCV venting to open atmosphere, and no one has yet mentioned anything to me. Besides, if they do start cracking down on that, it's a simple mod to reverse.

Curtis
2002 F-250 PSD
Gambling with 250/200's on PMR's.
478hp/851tq on Haller's dyno - 7/28/12
Your connection to the
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Pocket is offline  
post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 10:33 PM
<- Sums it up
 
strokin_early_99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alameda County, CA
Posts: 1,738
Re: Calif. diesel pickup smogtest & inspection '08

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorEngineering View Post
Our 7.3's can burn pretty clean with the right tuning. I have B codes, and I'm not worried about passing an emissions test. The only thing that bothers me, is the political crap of getting the truck smogged(more time, another tax, another bureaucracy and another bill).
Joey, you forgot a couple so I added them.

Howie

Early99 CC LWB 4X4
Updated B codes, Modded H2E, Big oil, half filled block, studded, John Wood 4R100. 232K miles
Tows like a champ!

"Damn Larry, he passed us like a freight train passing a hobo!"
--Lisa P.

Just sold to Larry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2-17-2019: 97 CC LWB 4X4 7.3 with full banks kit, John Wood E4OD. 139K miles
strokin_early_99 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome