Camshafts stock vs aftermarket - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

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Originally Posted by aggie View Post
I dont buy the cam being the biggest issue either. Sure you can move the power peak up with a cam..but its doing so by taking away on the bottom end, instead of improving on the top end. Being as a diesel is throttled off fuel and we have turbo chargers to run essentially any boost we want, as long as there is plenty of boost at the higher rpm the fall off of power would be linked to the fall off of fuel.
Did not want to muddy up the other thread, so here goes.

1st have you driven or ridden in a truck with a properly working non stock cam shaft?

2nd if the lower is a true statement why is it that in just about every form of motor sports that the stock camshaft is replaced when higher rpm power is being sought after.

3rd why is it that the cummins and Dmax guys change camshafts if they don't have a high RPM fuel issue??????????????

4th how many stock camshaft trucks are pulling to 4200rpm?

Point of the post is, I read too many unfounded opinions based off of hearsay or because so and so tried one and it did not work.

I tried a bunch that did not work and finally found a combination that did work, it's called R&D.
Unfortunately there are very few people that know how to properly R&D to get good info.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 05:26 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

I have a camshaft that works, just need the injectors to actually do some fueling at the RPM I want. Working on that last part right now.

Jason

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 05:38 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

With the correct timing events(which for the powerstroke I have no idea), of course there is gains to be had. They key is too to be able to test it on a engine dynamometer first.

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 05:52 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

[quote=Powerstroke Racer;232626]
Quote:
Did not want to muddy up the other thread, so here goes.

1st have you driven or ridden in a truck with a properly working non stock cam shaft?

2nd if the lower is a true statement why is it that in just about every form of motor sports that the stock camshaft is replaced when higher rpm power is being sought after.

3rd why is it that the cummins and Dmax guys change camshafts if they don't have a high RPM fuel issue??????????????

4th how many stock camshaft trucks are pulling to 4200rpm?
quite a few...I could show a graph showing the acceleration curve of one particular truck...in every gear up to ~4700rpm...the change in acceleration isn't hurt too damn much by the stock cam as evidenced by the continuing rise over 4200.

Quote:
Point of the post is, I read too many unfounded opinions based off of hearsay or because so and so tried one and it did not work.

I tried a bunch that did not work and finally found a combination that did work, it's called R&D.
Unfortunately there are very few people that know how to properly R&D to get good info.
Agree...but I have PERSONALLY pulled OUT nearly a dozen aftermarket cams, reinstalled the OEM cam, made ZERO other changes to the truck...and pick up ~100hp.

over & over & over.

Will a cam help? absoFRICKENlutely.

Will most ALL aftermarket cams that are/were available for the 7.3 hurt performance? absoFRICKENlutely...

we have a preeeettty good "library" of cam profiles that have been installed (usually by folks prior to becoming our customers)...and it is quite obvious what the problem is, with 99.9% of the cams that were ever sold as a "performance" part.

Even the cams that don't "suck as much as most" would have to have been engineered & tested to suuuuch perfection to make any noticeable difference on a stock (electronic) truck, that it isn't even funny.

And even IF there ARE cams out there that ARE better than stock...EVEN BY A WIDE MARGIN...WTF is going to be proven when the stock PCM tosses you the bird at 3x00 rpm?!?

Dave, your trucks & customers trucks run exceptionally well. but unless you plumb injectors in BEFORE the intake valve...there is much more to lose by installation of an aftermarket cam than keeping it stock.

(not a "dig") just my opinion.



take care~

Dave
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 05:58 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

First off, I guess i should have worded the post a little differently. i did not mean to imply all aftermarket powerstroke cams are junk, obviously people have had good luck with some but others have not. I have never ridden in 7.3 truck with what you call a "propperly working non stock camshaft". However, as an example, if you call Don M at F1 Diesel which most consider to be one of the best camshaft makers for the Dodge Cummins, will he tell you his cam will add tons of power to your setup, all things staying the same? Our common rail shop truck has his helix 2 cam with 90 horse sticks and a modded pump and sps66 turbo. What the cam did do was improve turbo spool, lower egts, and improve the top end power a LITTLE...this is exactly as it was advertised.

i also have no doubt power has been made to 4200 rpms...as obviously it has. But why cant we make more at 4200 rpms? if we have all the air in the world..the most trick cam, 10 bottles of nos at 4200 rpms...why is our power still falling?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 06:04 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

Is there any other advantage to the cam other than fueling at high RPM?
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 06:14 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

My thoughts are that if the engine starts making a ton of tq at a very low rpm --read--rpm below the usable range--- then there has got to be some advantage to at least retarding the stock cam one or two degrees- moving the USABLE rpm range up a bit. Heck, if it pulls its guts out below 1000 rpm, what good is that? Mine will never drop below 1,800 rpm if you are in the throttle. NEVER. It doesnt matter if its got 20,000 pounds back there, it just downshifts and keeps on turning. SO, maybe a huge high rpm cam aint the answer, but there should still be gains to be had. Still no-one has shown a flow sheet from a stock uncut head showing the flow vs lift. If it quits gaining flow at .200 lift then theres no point to getting a cam with .700 lift...
But, if it flows well to .500 , then why restrict it with a cam having only .280 lift? I dont think a ton of duration will gain much on em, but the lift and cam timing could def. be improved on.

And then theres all those running ported heads......
If the heads flow better at a lift above what the stocker has , then there should be power to be made at ALL rpm's.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 06:19 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

Jacob,

The cam does not effect fueling whatsoever. What it does is control the air entering and leaving the cylinders through the intake and exhaust valves. Changing the profile of this can change things such as how much the valves open, how long they stay open, when theyre open in relation to eachother. Some beleive the cam is responsible for our inability to make big power at higher rpms, other beleive it is fuel related, and other possibilities. With enough brainstorming and trying new things...hopefully well make the powerstroke a monster in every part of the powerband.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

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Originally Posted by aggie View Post
First off, I guess i should have worded the post a little differently. i did not mean to imply all aftermarket powerstroke cams are junk, obviously people have had good luck with some but others have not. I have never ridden in 7.3 truck with what you call a "propperly working non stock camshaft". However, as an example, if you call Don M at F1 Diesel which most consider to be one of the best camshaft makers for the Dodge Cummins, will he tell you his cam will add tons of power to your setup, all things staying the same? Our common rail shop truck has his helix 2 cam with 90 horse sticks and a modded pump and sps66 turbo. What the cam did do was improve turbo spool, lower egts, and improve the top end power a LITTLE...this is exactly as it was advertised.
i also have no doubt power has been made to 4200 rpms...as obviously it has. But why cant we make more at 4200 rpms? if we have all the air in the world..the most trick cam, 10 bottles of nos at 4200 rpms...why is our power still falling?
I never said our cam will add a bunch of horsepower but it will do exactly as what is in bold above.
The other advantage of the cam is shifting the low end torque curve upward in the rpm band which benefits a good running 7.3 with a large charger.

My point again is don't knock what you can't make work or don't understand and that is not just aimed at you.
Our trucks have more than proven to run good both on the street as well as at the track.

David Lott
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 08:01 PM
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Re: Camshafts stock vs aftermarket

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Our trucks, except Snowhite, have more than proven to run good both on the street as well as at the track.
Fixed it for ya

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