water injection and turbo surge - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
PSN Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 49
water injection and turbo surge

I am at work with the camper hooked up and getting ready for a 3K road trip starting this afternoon. On the way into work I had a chance to try out the new water injection system. I am running a 3 to 1 mix, water to -20 peak washer fluid. Going up some hills I noticed some minor turbo surge. On one longer hill, for giggles, I turned off the water injection, surging stopped, I turned it right back on and the surging came back. Any idea why it is doing this? I was around 900F to 1000F and 10psi running at 65 in OD.

The only thing I can come up with is with a cooler exhaust temp it is turning the wheel more efficiently causing it to move in to surge zone. (This was not even a SWAG it was only a WAG). I kept watching the best I could and saw no noticable change in boost, only in the EGT when the water was on.

Any suggestions would be great since I am headed for the mountains out west and don't want to surge the turbo to death. o.k. over exaggeration since it is only mild surging, most of the time closer to a stall in flow then a surge back thru the compressor housing, but still damn annoying.

2001 Excursion Preditor tuner, 4" Magna Flow exhaust, AFE II Dry-S, Front spring pack,
add a leaf in the rear, Rear Helwig, and Rancho 9000X all around, HPX, Reg Ret, IAH delete, SP exhaust brake, JW VB, Gauges: Boost, EGT, and tranny temp. Cooling mist EGT/boost, RAS

Waiting to install:
ITP prepump and intank
sheboyganjohn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 03:34 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Twilightzone
Posts: 7,764
Re: water injection and turbo surge

Run pure water and see if it doesn't stop.

What you're describing is about the complete opposite of what I would expect. You are cooling the intake air charge, making it more dense (takes up less space) requiring that the compressor must pull in more air to maintain the same boost. That's increasing the compressor flow and moving it away from the surge line.

Plus, you should be dropping egt, meaning less energy to drive the turbine wheel which translates into less energy to power the compressor wheel, which should actually lower boost some if anything. Which again, would move you away from the surge line.

The only thing I can figure is that the methanol is adding enough energy that it's driving the turbine wheel harder and pushing the boost up just a hair, and slipping you into surge.

Other than that, I can't see any explanation and I don't have any personal experience with it.

Good Luck.
Charles is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
PSN Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 49
Re: water injection and turbo surge

Thank makes sense. As I run her down I will add more water with-out methenol. Of course I have premixed three gallons with washer fluid, I will just have to save those for play time when I am not towing

2001 Excursion Preditor tuner, 4" Magna Flow exhaust, AFE II Dry-S, Front spring pack,
add a leaf in the rear, Rear Helwig, and Rancho 9000X all around, HPX, Reg Ret, IAH delete, SP exhaust brake, JW VB, Gauges: Boost, EGT, and tranny temp. Cooling mist EGT/boost, RAS

Waiting to install:
ITP prepump and intank
sheboyganjohn is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 05:21 PM
<<< THE GAUGE WHORE...
 
CSIPSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 12,083
Re: water injection and turbo surge

Never experanced any surge due to water. Some detonation due to too much meth but no surge... Where are your injectors and what size are they?

[CENTER]01 F-250 SC PSD,430k,16 Isspro Gauges, AFE-2,CCV Mod,IAH delete,map reg,Modded H2e, 6.0 IC, 230/100, Studs, 910 springs, Forged rods, Hydra chip, Swamps HVHF IDM, MBRP 4" dual's, Aero, 6" tip's, 4" Revtek lift, 37/12.5/16.5 MT's
Joe
CSIPSD is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
PSN Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 49
Re: water injection and turbo surge

I have two 12gph injectors, one is in the spider at the AIH port the other is in the intercooler outlet tube just bofore the IC boot. I am currently injecting over 800F and 6psi of boost with the top of the 2D map at 1400F and 22psi fo boost.

2001 Excursion Preditor tuner, 4" Magna Flow exhaust, AFE II Dry-S, Front spring pack,
add a leaf in the rear, Rear Helwig, and Rancho 9000X all around, HPX, Reg Ret, IAH delete, SP exhaust brake, JW VB, Gauges: Boost, EGT, and tranny temp. Cooling mist EGT/boost, RAS

Waiting to install:
ITP prepump and intank
sheboyganjohn is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 05:43 PM
<<< THE GAUGE WHORE...
 
CSIPSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 12,083
Re: water injection and turbo surge

Lower the top of the map to 1250 and 20psi and raise the lower PSI to about 8psi. You might be putting out the fire injecting so low a PSI.

[CENTER]01 F-250 SC PSD,430k,16 Isspro Gauges, AFE-2,CCV Mod,IAH delete,map reg,Modded H2e, 6.0 IC, 230/100, Studs, 910 springs, Forged rods, Hydra chip, Swamps HVHF IDM, MBRP 4" dual's, Aero, 6" tip's, 4" Revtek lift, 37/12.5/16.5 MT's
Joe
CSIPSD is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2008, 07:48 PM
Moderator
 
Blowby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 2,017
Re: water injection and turbo surge

Move the injector at the Y further from the intake and up the lower boost injection to about 10-12 psi.

Edit: I start at 18psi and end (100&#37; duty cycle) at 28psi on my tow truck.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Blowby; 07-07-2008 at 10:36 PM.
Blowby is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 05:36 PM
Village Idiot
 
southmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,209
Re: water injection and turbo surge

post back with some findings too please.
I have been looking at water injection for a bit.
one day I will pick joes brain some more if i get close to buying a system.

Early 99 f350 4x4 crew cab, auto. pmt2 pcm
2001 cup holder ,T500, MAX AC ASSIST AC mod, Diy Twin tymar, TS chip, Powerslots & Hawk pads, ford AIC, ..... with big fat want to list.
southmike is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome