What is goin on with my front end..... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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What is goin on with my front end.....

Kinda sitting around bored today so decided to ask everyone else whats up with my front end when pulling. Here are a couple vids of this year. I have broken three stub shafts in the past month, two pullin and one that was brand new test hooking behind the shop.

This one I was getting a alot of up and down out of it, it broke so fast it was hard to tell what was going on.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ghGqLZ1bE9A

This one it rained right before the pull so the track was a mess. They accually redid the track lane so that there was a turn at the end, yes a s turn . It snapped the shaft right as I was getting into the turn and I let out of it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mWBDk36s_Rg
In that one you can see the tires goin nuts. In that video it looks like I have tie rod/drag link issues more then up and down. The problem has really gotten bad this year due to more power out of the hole and way more aggresive tires out front. It has some ladder bars on the fron and shouldnt be getting axel wrap. It is still open out front as well, locker may help I dont know.

So tell me what are your ideas on stopping the death wobble?

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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 09:11 PM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

man bean that last one looks horrible, is it aligned and everything tight? never seen one wobble. a locker if a real tight one would probably make it worse, i got a buddy who welded the 60 front end of his cummins and if one tire hit soft stuff he snapped an axle, he did find some bigger axles this year though. your truck sure runs great though.

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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 11:18 PM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Couple of questions.... One, what carrier are you running? IE L/S, locked, spool, open. Two, have you checked ball joints, and Three, what condition is your steering in? IE, any play in the plain road, and have you had anyone watch your steering joints, as you rock the steering wheel back and forth, while the truck is off.


EDIT, i just reread your post, and you say you have an open front carrier. Im not a puller, but open diffs IMO cause alot of carnage, and when you have more HP....... What essentially is happening is your load is transfering from left to right through your open differential. As the left tire grabs, the right tire slips, then reverse. Hense your wheel going back and forth. As one side gets traction, it pulls that way, as the other gets its traction, wheel turns the other way, and yes it can and does happen that fast. Lock up the front. IMO

Also, i see you said youve broken a bunch of stubs. A locker/spool/ L/S, should ideally take care of that while pulling. If you dont want too much to be affected, an ARB would be an ideal choice. Locked when pulling, open (no change) when normal 4wd is necesary.

Just my .02

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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 11:26 PM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Also the fact you said youve noticed it more since you got MORE aggressive tires really confirms my theory there. The play in your steering isnt helping, but even with that fixed, youd still likely have this problem IMO

Like I said, im not a puller though, I just love drivetrain.

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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 11:47 PM
 
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

There maybe a few things that are all adding up to cause the issue. Like rebel says, loose steering/ball joints, etc. are not helping that situation. I'd ditch the open diff and either run a Detroit or a True-Trac then see what it does.
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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 11:59 PM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelchevy02 View Post
Couple of questions.... One, what carrier are you running? IE L/S, locked, spool, open. Two, have you checked ball joints, and Three, what condition is your steering in? IE, any play in the plain road, and have you had anyone watch your steering joints, as you rock the steering wheel back and forth, while the truck is off.


EDIT, i just reread your post, and you say you have an open front carrier. Im not a puller, but open diffs IMO cause alot of carnage, and when you have more HP....... What essentially is happening is your load is transfering from left to right through your open differential. As the left tire grabs, the right tire slips, then reverse. Hense your wheel going back and forth. As one side gets traction, it pulls that way, as the other gets its traction, wheel turns the other way, and yes it can and does happen that fast. Lock up the front. IMO

Also, i see you said youve broken a bunch of stubs. A locker/spool/ L/S, should ideally take care of that while pulling. If you dont want too much to be affected, an ARB would be an ideal choice. Locked when pulling, open (no change) when normal 4wd is necesary.

Just my .02
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelchevy02 View Post
Also the fact you said youve noticed it more since you got MORE aggressive tires really confirms my theory there. The play in your steering isnt helping, but even with that fixed, youd still likely have this problem IMO

Like I said, im not a puller though, I just love drivetrain.

I think he's dead on. What tires are you running. I didn't watch the videos. Less tire more wheel speed.

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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-05-2008, 12:38 AM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Exactly what rebel said.


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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-05-2008, 01:12 AM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

If your breaking shafts with a open diff, then you will be breaking them even more with a locker in the front IMO. Thats how it works in rock crawling. There more stress on everything sense every thing is locked and working all at once. Whenever you have a open diff in the front and a tire gets into a heavy bind, all it does it switch the force to the other tire. When you get into a bind in locked front end , theres not where for the it to go so then you find find more carnage. I hope i explained that well. If you have a loose frontend that isnt helping your issue.........you probably have a bad tie rod end and or balljoints. If you have a 05 up truck with coil springs it is really hard to get the wheel hop / death wobble to stop but i think i remember you posting that you have an older truck with leaf springs. Also maybe try easying off the clutch a little slower and ride it out longer.....that might help out on wheel hop / death wobble. What are tire pressure set at? To much pressure and it will wheel hop more. Lastly when i used to pull the truck with no weights on the front, the truck like to hop very badly, after adding 1000 pounds to the front and adding blocks to the rear the truck pulls very flat and smooth. Yours I hope this might help you out and give you some ideas

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-05-2008, 01:17 AM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powersmoker View Post
If your breaking shafts with a open diff, then you will be breaking them even more with a locker in the front IMO. Thats how it works in rock crawling. There more stress on everything sense every thing is locked and working all at once. Whenever you have a open diff in the front and a tire gets into a heavy bind, all it does it switch the force to the other tire. When you get into a bind in locked front end , theres not where for the it to go so then you find find more carnage. I hope i explained that well. If you have a loose frontend that isnt helping your issue.........you probably have a bad tie rod end and or balljoints. If you have a 05 up truck with coil springs it is really hard to get the wheel hop / death wobble to stop but i think i remember you posting that you have an older truck with leaf springs. Also try easying off the clutch a little slower and ride it out longer.....that might help out on wheel hop / death wobble. What are tire pressure set at? To much pressure and it will wheel hop more. Lastly when i used to pull the truck with no weights on the front, the truck like to hop very badly, after adding 1000 pounds to the front and adding blocks to the rear the truck pulls very flat and smooth.

Yep it switches to the other tire. 600+ hp at a 35mph wheel speed.

Kevin

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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-05-2008, 03:05 AM
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Re: What is goin on with my front end.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powersmoker View Post
If your breaking shafts with a open diff, then you will be breaking them even more with a locker in the front IMO. Thats how it works in rock crawling. There more stress on everything sense every thing is locked and working all at once. Whenever you have a open diff in the front and a tire gets into a heavy bind, all it does it switch the force to the other tire. When you get into a bind in locked front end , theres not where for the it to go so then you find find more carnage. I hope i explained that well. If you have a loose frontend that isnt helping your issue.........you probably have a bad tie rod end and or balljoints. If you have a 05 up truck with coil springs it is really hard to get the wheel hop / death wobble to stop but i think i remember you posting that you have an older truck with leaf springs. Also maybe try easying off the clutch a little slower and ride it out longer.....that might help out on wheel hop / death wobble. What are tire pressure set at? To much pressure and it will wheel hop more. Lastly when i used to pull the truck with no weights on the front, the truck like to hop very badly, after adding 1000 pounds to the front and adding blocks to the rear the truck pulls very flat and smooth. Yours I hope this might help you out and give you some ideas
Actually, an open differential causes just the opposite of what you said, when your front end is spinning. When both tires are spinning equally, they both take the same amount of power. Now one side catches, the otherside is forced to spin the exact amount faster, then the one that just caught, slowed down. Thats how an open differential works. Now he has not let off at all, so the input to the differential is the same, the load just went from both sides, to one side catching, and the otherside getting a massive torque increase, to jump xx amount of wheelspeed to make up for the other side catching. This is a very good time to break a stub shaft. The load transfer to the other side causes this. Now in the video, its causing what most people call death wobble. This is because one side catches, one side slips, then reverse, and very fast. Now the steering shakes. While for most what most people call death wobble, is the same thing happening, on the road, even in 2wd, and is an alignment issue. The death wobble issue HE is experienceing, is caused by the open differential, and load transfer from side, to side, and the reason for load transfer is one tire catching, then the other, very fast, and back and forth. Now, if he had a locked axle, or even spooled axle, and you put it in the same situation, when the same tire "caught" it wouldnt have a choice, but to either lurch the truck forward, or be forced to spin through it. (not that its infact a choice, but its a hp requirement)
The transfer from side to side, because a tire catches is what causes so much damage to axle shafts when your spinning.

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