Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-26-2014, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

A few month ago I sent my powermax to barder and James upgraded to the stage 3 kit. This includes the bigger compressor wheel, which measures 68mm at the inducer. The bigger exhaust wheel. It also includes the gt 40 shaft.

I got the turbo back a month or so ago. Since then I've been reading companies like mtw and kc does the 68mm turbos just like barder, but they put on a bigger compressor housing. They put the gt40 compressor housings on, which is .72 Ar compared to the .58 Ar standard housing which James uses. I've heard from a few people this increases airflow quiet considerably. When i talked to James about it he said it's not worth the money and he wouldn't do it. He did give me the green light if I wanted to.

My next conversation was about replacing the housing. I found a few gt40 specs and there seems to be 3 gt40 turbos. A gt4088, gt4088r, and a gt4094r. Some companies that use these turbos use the gt4088 which will fit the smaller upgraded turbos like the elite ssx use to use this housing, and I'm pretty sure mtw stage 2 uses this housing, but only this turbo. My problem
Is that housing is to small. I need a bigger one. The gt4088r is to small also. All is left is the gt4094r, which people use on duramax's. Or I could go up to a gt42.... The specs on the gt4094r housing will fit a compressor wheel of 67.8 by 94. Which barder uses a 68 by 100. I think I shouldn't have a problem on the inducer side. So I talked to James and he said the way he builds his turbos that his wheels are measured that big, but the way the housing fits the wheel keeps going on beyond the housing. Which he basically said the gt4094r will fit. Because he said his compressor wheel basically measures 67.8 by 94.

My question is it worth it? And will it fit? Or should I look at gt42's housings.

I did figured out if I do, do it. That the new housing bolts on from the back of the housing instead of the front like the normal powermax. James said the gt40 housings look smaller than the normal .58 ar housing.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-27-2014, 08:50 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

Do you have running issues with the current setup?


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

No I habent been running it since my oil pressure is depleted . Thought it was the hpop, but rivercity sent it to Bosch and it said it flowed great. I haven't got a sheet yet. If not it must be the injectors.

I wasn't sure if the truck would run much better? And would it help a lot with cfm? James thought it might help 10 hp or so... Tops.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 04:35 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

Just to answer a few of your questions...


About the gt40 shaft... the gt40 and gt37 shaft are in fact the same size. But the turbine heads are different.


About the .72ar cover. As far as I know in the 6.0 world... only Elite and KC turbos use that style cover. It is used for many reasons. One is the higher flowing CFM. Two is the fact that the cover looks better (IMO). Three is that the cover is physically smaller in size so it fits much nicer. Four (depending on the company)... using one of these covers means that you have a CNC factory made compound radius curve which is precise and produces very consistent results. Many turbo builders just use a lathe to cut that compound radius curve by hand which can lead to inconsistent results.

MTW used to make a stage 2 back in the day that used the gt40 cover. It had really good results but was very expensive to build. MTW had to literally pay $1100 to buy a gt4088 turbo just to use the .72ar gt40 cover and backing plate. Because of cost MTW started using the standard .58ar stock compressor covers with all the other specs EXACTLY the same as the Original MTW stage 2. That turbo was called the "hybrid" which ended up being a total flop and most people had major problems with it... only difference was the .58ar cover and .72ar cover.

I also know people who were having surging issues, stall issues, low boost issues, high egts, etc... they switched to a .72ar cover and all the issues went away.

I also know people who had nothing wrong with their turbos, but switched to a .72ar cover and loved it.




IMO... is it worth it??? Maybe... but if you just got your turbo built by James then I would run it and see how it does. James is known to build great products and I have heard very few issues with anything that he builds. I would give the turbo a shot and see how you like it before jumping onto anything different.


Just for reference. Here are the turbos that I was talking about...


Elite's powermax HO turbo uses a gt40 style cover
www.elitedieselengineering.com - PowermaxHO



KC Turbos stage 1.5, stage 2, and stage 3 all use the gt40 style cover. They dont have a website but WPE does sell their turbos
KC Turbos - Ford 6.0L Powerstroke Stage 3.0 Turbocharger - Turbos
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 06:20 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

So basically if he has never ran a turbo with .72 cover you more than likely wouldn't be able to tell a difference Charlie? I'm just trying to understand what we are actually talkin about here, the .72 flows more but is more expensive to build but the other is cheaper to build correct? So in the end what kinda actual numbers are we talking here between the two? What kinda hp numbers can you see with one that can't get with the other?

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 06:36 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

As far as I know those are all questions without any hard concrete data as of right now... and to be truthful the questions are a little too broad to throw out an exact number. There are many different sizes and specs between turbos and the covers can/will react differently depending the comp wheel and turbine wheel that it is paired with. Sizing and specs are important and not every combo works well.

Anyone that I know of who has switched covers has noticed a difference. They run, sound, and drive differently. I have never heard of anyone ever switching covers and "not noticing anything" or "disliking" what they found. (there are a lot of guys out there who searched until they found a gt4088 or gt4094 for cheap and made the switch)

Just like asking exactly how much hp a Barder stage 3 will make vs a barder stage 2??? Many people have ran both turbos, experienced a difference, and reported what they found... but without much concrete data.

If I ever get my truck up and running long enough to make it "dyno/track ready" then that is on the list of things to test.


I hope that helps
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

Do you have a barder stage 3 or kc stage 3?

So the housing should just bolt on? I know the bolts go through the back instead of the front.
Can you use the existing backing plate?

I know I have the same cover as you. As from previous pictures I've seen of your turbo. Yours is the gt4094r cover?


Should it work on the stage 3 barder? The specs on the wheel is bigger but James said it would work. It's just the way you measure the wheel.

My housing looks different from both of those links you sent.



I got lucky and found just the housing!

I just went on the wpe website and they sell the gt40 housing. Its under those turbo rebuild kits

Ford 6.0L Powerstroke Stage 2.0 Turbocharger Rebuild Kit - Turbos

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 03:28 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

There are 3 or 4 different gt40 covers... they are all very similar but look different on the outside.


The cover will not just "bolt on". You need to buy a backing plate, orings, and all hardware to install. You have to pull the cover, comp wheel, and backing plate.


Also IMO I would not mess with your new Barder Turbo for a couple of reasons. First is the fact that you should probably get some sort of baseline and know how the turbo works before messing with it... just in case something goes wrong or does not run right. Also I am sure James would not like you pulling off the comp cover, comp wheel, and changing out all those parts. It would more than likely void any sort of warranty you have. Also if he did not put balancing marks on the wheel... then you don't know how much to tighten everything back down afterwards.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 04:22 PM
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

Yes... I totally agree with Charlie on this... It isn't going to be a bolt on affair. I spoke with a guy on the ORG who mated half of a GT4088 to his 06 style turbo. There was some modification required to make the compressor backing plate of the GT4088 work according to him. I also wouldn't be modding a freshly rebuilt turbo if there was some warranty to it, especially if I had never taken one apart before.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-31-2014, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Modded barder 68mm vgt turbo

James told me like you said take the compressor wheel off and put the gt4094 backing plate on. The person I bought the housing from said it came with a backing plate. And it didn't. James thought the backing plate should work. As long as it sticks out further than the compressor wheel.

I didn't mean literlary bolt on. I knew if have to take the compressor wheel off and switch the backing plate. But the original backing plate won't work for sure? I need a gt4094r backing plate?

And yes the bolts must be different than the original.

06 f350 white crew cab dually, 225/100 warrens, barder 68, BTS, Fuel lab setup built by tsd, sct tuned by tsd, ppe up pipes,bd exhaust manifolds, secret dual oil kit ,CTS monitor, a lot more extras

01 f350 red extended cab dually, powermax 38r, BTS, cfm, Afe, 6 inch danahoe, tsd 6 pos, a lot more extras.
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