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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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need some newbe knowledge on power

okay well let me start like this im 21 im in the army stationed at ft.hood texas I bought my first diesel a couple months ago and chose a 2004 f250 powerstroke. The selling point was it had some banks stuff under the hood and it had a 6inch lift with 38s and for 14,500 i thought wow what a deal :/.Well after i bought it i learned it had 2 cracked heads and blown gaskets not a good start. so I spent like $5500 to put 2 new heads, new ford gaskets, arp studs, egr delete new radiator and a few other little things and seals. So now ive been reading many forums and what not trying to figure out how i can get my truck in the 600+ hp club and i read things like 64mm vgt and non vgt turbos?

1st question whats the differance between a 64mm vgt and non vgt? then i read about injectors 175/75 190/100 which leads to my 2nd question, if i want to make 600hp -650 hp what injectors would i need to run? then im guessing i would have to upgrade my fuel pump? how many gph would i need? I was planing on junking my banks iq and getting a sct tuner/ficm tune from kem or is there some where else i should get that done? one of the problums i have on here is everyone abreviates everything and thats where i get lost also they start talking about the 100 differnt brands i just want a reliable brand that isnt the most expensive. what other parts would i need? and what kind of stuff would i need to do to the truck to get to my goal. what kind of tunning would i need to get done on it? and would i beable to install this stuff myself i am a mechanic in the army ive done some pretty extensive work on humves but no mods lol. thanks for any help and advice

Last edited by HeavyAssault; 06-23-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

oh and for some stuff i have on it besides what i listed is banks intercooler, banks ram air intake, banks high ram intake, and banks 4 inch turbo back exhuast, amsoil oil bypass system i believe thats it
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 03:23 PM
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

best advice to be given:

make sure the truck is supported for 600 first: Twins would be the simplest and prob most expensive route go, but you would need many supporting items there. You will need to figure out what your use of the truck is going to be and make sure you dont build the truck in a way that its functional to you. I currently run 205/100 injectors, and run a 66/71 bullseye turbo...if you run more than a 205 (225+) your going to want to look into big oil....also a fuel system would be a must with larger injectors, i would reccommend a regulated fuel return, with the 6.4 banjos, coolant filter, oil cooler rebuild, perhaps some modified up pipes, definitley custom tunes. You will need some guages to keep your eyes on temps. exhaust system, air intake system. while 600 sounds like a nice easy number, it takes a lot of parts, and planning. I would also reccomend an intercooler, intake elbo, possibly a ported intake manifold. now once you get the motor mapped out for 600, you will need to figure out how to get it to the ground so plan for a trans, TQ, maybe some regearing....traction bars will be a must with the lift....Thats a starter, im sure theres guys that will pipe in with some more details, parts, and explinations of the vgt vs non & injector sizing.....

completley stock truck...just a simple cat back system....and maybe a few other odds and ends
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 03:42 PM
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

Ok well to answer your question, yes you need to ditch the banks electronic sh!t and get an SCT with some custom tunes so your tranny can make it a while longer. Sounds like you have the basic bullet proofing done but what you REALLY need to do is get is something to start monitoring various parameters on your motor. I recommend ONLY the Edge CTS Insight Monitor. Yep others will do the trick. Yep others are less expensive. BUT NOTHING else can be expanded to monitor whatever you want like the Edge CS or CTS (touch screen vs non touch screen). You can also keep the IQ and turn it down to zero (stock) and just use it for monitoring and get gauges for whatever it doesn't monitor if you want. I still think the CTS is the way to go though. JMO on that. The important thing is that you are monitoring your motor so as you add things you can see how it affects your motor. I currently have mine expanded to monitor fuel pressure, oil pressure, and EGTs (all are parameters that can not be monitored through the OBDII port and typically require gauges to be installed). Does your truck have the banks intercooler on it??

Ok now let's talk about the 600hp mark with 38s. First those are huge tires and you should probably think about regearing to getting back to being close to where stock tires and gears are but with those tires, 600hp to the wheels will be no small feat and you WILL need a transmission if you expect be able to hammer down on the street and have your truck live. In order to get to ~600hp, you'll need both a turbo and injectors. I personally feel that if you bought some 190/100s and ran a turbo like I am running (when they become available) then with the right tuning you will be at the 600hp mark. Of course in order to ensure you are, some 205/100s and the size larger turbo than I have would most likely ensure you did hit 600hp. Of course if you put stock tires on, you would probably hit either high 600s or possibly even 700hp but we'll get to that. Eitherway, I think 190s will flow the fuel for you to hit 600hp. You just need the air and tuning is all.

Now onto turbos. The stock turbo is what they call a variable vane turbo or variable geometry turbo (VGT). It has moveable vanes that are linked to an actuator that is controlled by the ECU (electronic control unit or truck's main computer). These vanes are moved such so they provide optimum exhaust flow to the turbine wheel to quickly spool the turbo. A non-VGT turbo is a turbo that does not have these moveable vanes and therefore relies solely on exhuast gas energy to cause the turbine to move and spool the turbo. These typically have much lower throttle responses even with live tuning but typically flow more than a VGT does in the upper RPM ranges. On average though, the VGT turbo will provide superior driving characteristics over the non-VGT but will flow less air than the non-VGT does.

For all of these upgrades you will need supporting mods as well. For the injectors to live a long and healthy life you will need to have a fuel system. For you to be able to keep going down the road, you will need a built tranny for 700hp since you have 38s and want 600-650hp. I also dont know if you have an aftermarket intake yet or not but if not you'll need to ditch the stocker and get either a S&B or AFE. I think that is enough for now to start a discussion. Good luck with the build man.

Nate
06 F350 4x4: Non-VGT 67mm Turbo, WPE Big Oil HPOP, HD 215/85s, Race Ported Intake, NB/Warren Tranny, and some other stuff.... 100k miles and counting....

06 F250 2wd: Stock... EGR delete, Race Ported Intake, and a mild street tune.... Leaking HGs
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

okay the first thing i am going to order is my guages. any particular brand? or does that edge show all those on one screen? oh have you ever heard of getting rid of the belt driven fan and putting in electric fans? wouldnt that add some hp?
okay my goal for the truck is bring it to the drag strip like 2 or three times a month and dust the cummins and duramaxs and them damn jap cars, and haul my 20 foot boat to the lake when i have time. i can say i never thought about the tires effecting the hp. how much hp with my tires can the trans and gears handle stock?
for the intercooler its the banks intercooler that comes in the big hoss kit and the banks air intake.
what size turbo are you running? and is it vgt?
what kind of mpg am i looking at if i go and get this carried away with the truck?
and if i do exactly what you did to you truck but with my tires id be looking at like
565ish hp?
also ive never driven any other turbo diesel besides uparmored hmmves but my truck is gutless for like 2-4 seconds then the turbo kicks in and burns the tires do they all lag that bad?
thanks for your time and help
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 06:09 PM
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

I highly recommend just getting an Edge CTS monitor unless you really like gauges and even if you do get the CTS first and then gauges for stuff you want to monitor all the time. The CTS can display like 12 things at once.

Electric fans will only gain you room between the engine and fans and that is it. No HP or fuel economy gains with those. I plan on doing them though so i can access the front of my motor easier but for you I would wait for that until later.

Yes my turbo is a VGT. It is prototype so therefore it is currently unavailable but should be in a few months.

What kind of mileage are you seeing now?? I would think that with more power your mileage should improve but will most likely stay where it is right now.

I would say that 570ish is reasonable but realize that the number you see for me was just an ordinary tune written for 190s and a stock turbo. This turbo will put down well over this number with some live tuning. Also the guy that built this turbo is going to be building even bigger ones here soon as well. I think it is probably possible for you to hit 600hp with a setup like mine and live tuning. JMO.

As far as the lag you are experiencing goes, well turbo diesels are not V8 big blocks as far as throttle response goes but 2-4 seconds seems long to me so I would say you need some custom SCT tunes. JMO.

Hope this helps.

Nate
06 F350 4x4: Non-VGT 67mm Turbo, WPE Big Oil HPOP, HD 215/85s, Race Ported Intake, NB/Warren Tranny, and some other stuff.... 100k miles and counting....

06 F250 2wd: Stock... EGR delete, Race Ported Intake, and a mild street tune.... Leaking HGs
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 06:32 PM
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

im at 570 right now on 38's with a very driveable set up. I run the 205's so im running a little warmer at the moment. I do run a NON VGT turbo, and i love it. I is slightly more laggy than factory, but i cam from a 64mm SSX power max that was a VGT turbo, and i think the truck is just about the same spool...i start building boost around 1800 rpm. I will tell you once this thing lights...im at about 48-49psi, and the truck runs quick.....i have no problem spinning my 38's. my s366 with the housing size is just right. I would get ride of it do go twin..which is what im working on. on the stock FICM tune i was seeing egts around town in the 800 range....at wide open i would be at 1700...once the turbo spools up im around 1200-1300 give or take. I would think this turbo with 190's would be a clean streetable set up. as wildrunner said...600hp on 38's is not easy....trust me i know!

As far as your transmission goes if you leave the thing stock, you going to blow it, its just a matter of time. Many people will say run it till it breaks then fix it...i toke a more proactive approach and just built the trans while the truck was down. i have the iron pac 3 from sun coast along with billet shafts, and a sun coast converter. The power gets to the ground.

For re gearing...its ideal when you step up to larger tires, but i opted to run the stock 3:73's, something about 80mph on the highway at around 1900 rmps...just feels right. i will be leaving the factory gearing for now.

MPG's....i havent run the truck with the new turbo long enough to get through a tank of fuel yet, but i will say on a 2 hour trip last summer on the old turbo set up...i was seeing 18-19mpgs....cruising 80-85. Around town right now my factory guages tell me im at 14.5, and i do not drive light on the pedal around town.

I do run the CTS monitor in the truck, however i also have 3 pillar guages...egt, trans, boost. I think the Cs or the CTS are well worth the money. But you have to use it expandable components with it to get the full use out of it.

For a preference on Turbo....even with the awesome results that wildrunner saw with that stage III turbo, im still more a fan of the NON. although the VGT is a fantastic street set up, i opted for the NON because it allows me to look into twins down the road (Apparently down the road was not as far as i thought) and also i love the power that i have when it spools...and the sound...while it doesnt add much power, it sounds awesome.....

there are many ways to get to 600hp...just make sure you build the engine to support it!

completley stock truck...just a simple cat back system....and maybe a few other odds and ends
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-21-2012, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: need some newbe knowledge on power

okay so since its gonna cost soo much to get there im going to start slow with it if i can. i was thinking about ordering 205/100 injectors since my number 2 and 4 cylinder are acting up, order a regulated fuel return, a airdog fuel pump, and a edge cts for now. would i beable to run the truck like that or do i need to do the turbo at the same time? because i was gonna wait a couple pay checks then order a turbo, and parts for the transmission to build that up... oh and if i have that edge cts do i still need to get a sct?
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