Turbo shaft play too much? - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Turbo shaft play too much?

I had my turbo down a month ago an noticed that it has 0.015" redial play with new bearings just installed, end play was much less. I didn't have the parts to fix it at the time but it looked concerning to me. I am trying to think what this will hurt besides maybe less heat disapation for the shaft. can this amount of play cause gas leakage from the compressor or turbine? Could this be a factor in my not getting more than about 18 max boost? Should I get a new shaft and turbine? If so what should I get? my truck is an 03, no tune.

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 11:59 PM
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So I believe the axial (in and out) play is of more concern and as long as the turbine wheel doesn't contact the side of the inlet it should be good to go. The technical spec may be .5mm (0.019in) from center, but excessive play would cause the wheel to scrape/gouge the housing. If your not getting above 18psi it's probably an exhaust leak or a sensor issue. Post your EBP, map and baro KOEO, cold and warm idle and I'm sure someone can point you into a more definite direction.

EDIT: Just checked my service manual, axial end play spec is 0.091mm (0.0036in) and radial play is 0.5mm (0.02in).

2003 Excursion 6.0, 2004 front cover, Stock head bolts, unknown EGR delete, 4" Diamond Eye turbo back exhaust, Magnaflow 60110 catalytic converter (makes the '03 whistle livable), Hellwig Sway bar, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Gearhead tunes - 8k tow or SRL depending on my level of 6.0 paranoia, unknown work by previous owners...

Last edited by thesoulless; 02-09-2019 at 12:08 AM. Reason: convert mm to inches
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

i don't remember the end to end play but was only a few thousants so at 0.015 radial it looks like I am ok. As far as the numbers, I've chased this till I am half crazy, I got plenty numbers , don't lnow where to start posting. but here's a few;
at WOT 3600RPM, MAF 26.46,MAFv4.02,IAT1 66, IAT2 125, MAP 32.43, MAPv 3.26 BARO 14.5, MGP 18.49, VGT 41.39, ICP 3614, ICPdes 3625, ICPv 4.46, IPR% 74, VGT 41.39,EGR% 40.78, EGRdes 6.39 EGRv 1.07
this 3600 is not likely all available but speed was getting near 90 so I shut it off at that point.

the MAF maxxes out at 26.46lb/min at about 4v and voltage will continue up to 4.3 while scan tool stays at 26.46 exactly. It might be and issue with the AE scan tool as the limit of that pid is 26.46 but it won't stay changed when I edit that pid?

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

According to ford "Infered EBP Description" document MAF and MAP are critical inputs, I don't know how to check the MAF but I did spray it, the MAP, i pressured up to 25psi on a mechanical gage and read the same, more or less, on the AE scantool.

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 01:01 PM
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

Data in Table format is MUCH easier to read, at least for me!

Hard Acceleration:
MAF, lb/min: 49-52
MAF, gs/sec: 370 - 400
MAF, volts: 4.2
MAP, psia: 35 - 40
MGP, psig: MAP minus Baro
Baro, psia: local atmospheric pressure
IAT1, *F: Depends on Ambient temp
IAT2, *F: Depends on Ambient temp and EGR operation
VGT, % duty cycle: Depends on quite a few things, just not 15% or 85%, but typically around 40% w/ hard accel
EGR, % duty cycle: 40% - 45%
EGR, volts: 2.4v - 2.5v

To me it looks like your EGR numbers are off a little. When was the last time it was cleaned?

The MAF lb/min looks low, but the volts look ok. I bet the monitor range is a big part of the issue.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARPs OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Balljoints;RACCCV6000;Updated HPOP fitting;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;plugs&standpipes;Fumo to;Harpooned;Quadzilla XZT Fuel Press;Blue spring;DashDAQ;PHP_FICM; RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;Inverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;BPD WaterPump;SCT Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra w/ filter;SynchroMax
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

Recently cleaned with new orings
I tryed a new cheap one but it leaked during pressure test but these are it's numbers:
Hard accel
EGR d/c 34.3
ERG des 9.05
EGRv .74

cruising at 1500
22.1 d/c
4.22 des d/c
.8V
as you can see the d/c versus desired id usually way off.

i will monitor the gm/s with my edge in truck monitor,

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

The new EGR valve that I don't use voltage ranged only between 0.65 - 0.91v
the old one now in use ranges between 0.88 -1.91v
Neither of the valves get in the 2.4 - 2.5v
what would that mean?

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 04:15 PM
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that.

Ford states that the voltage range should be 0.6-3.5 volts.

Certain things I won't buy cheap for these 6.0's - sensors, actuators, and wiring harnesses.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARPs OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Balljoints;RACCCV6000;Updated HPOP fitting;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;plugs&standpipes;Fumo to;Harpooned;Quadzilla XZT Fuel Press;Blue spring;DashDAQ;PHP_FICM; RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;Inverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;BPD WaterPump;SCT Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra w/ filter;SynchroMax
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

On further checking, i believe that is the voltage signal for position. I guess mine isnt moving or in other words the d/c isnt changing much? i

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turbo shaft play too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic1 View Post
Data in Table format is MUCH easier to read, at least for me!

Hard Acceleration:
MAF, lb/min: 49-52
MAF, gs/sec: 370 - 400
MAF, volts: 4.2
MAP, psia: 35 - 40
MGP, psig: MAP minus Baro
Baro, psia: local atmospheric pressure
IAT1, *F: Depends on Ambient temp
IAT2, *F: Depends on Ambient temp and EGR operation
VGT, % duty cycle: Depends on quite a few things, just not 15% or 85%, but typically around 40% w/ hard accel
EGR, % duty cycle: 40% - 45%
EGR, volts: 2.4v - 2.5v

To me it looks like your EGR numbers are off a little. When was the last time it was cleaned?

The MAF lb/min looks low, but the volts look ok. I bet the monitor range is a big part of the issue.
You are right, while the AE data log is telling me 26.46lbs/min, my edge monitor is saying about 385g/s at about 3500 RPM WOT. 385g/s equates to about 50lbs/min, the AE is wrong.
so what to do? since MAF and MAP are said to be critical inputs for turbo control and now I can see that MAF seems to be right and my test of the MAP seemed to verify it, although the merchanical gage I used is of unknow accuratcy.
I have no leaks that I can see, although there was a leak sound comming from the crankcase vent in the valve cover while there was 25psi on the inyake and exhaust. Don't know what that could be, That is one reason I asked about the bearing clearance in the turbo. I seem to have gotten to the poimt of grasping at straws now.

My MAP is low-ish, mine maxes out at about 33psi. with 14.5 baro, I would need about 41.5psi to have a 26 MGP. I quess, I should say low, not low-ish?

2003 (03.25MY) 250 super duty xlt, auto, 2wd, 147K owned since new, word done; Cooling system flush and fill with ECL-1 coolant, coolant filter, oem oil cooler, BP EGR cooler, turbo rebuild and powermax GT40 compressor, dieselsite cacc boots hot side, cat delete, blue spring kit, transmissison fliter upgrade to 08 style, Edge monitor (no tuner).
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