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budget 700hp bottom end (moved from w.o.p vendor section)

28K views 200 replies 44 participants last post by  450ciPSD 
#1 ·
Hey! I just got done doing all the bolt on stuff to get me near 600hp. I would like to shoot a little nitrous to it to make close to 700hp. It is a daily driver, tows about 20k lbs, and sometimes sees the drag strip and sled. I want to do most of the work myself and have the rest done by a local engine machine shop. I would like to know what you suggest I get for the bottom end and head internals. Remember, I'm working with a relatively tight budget and will probably be getting things one piece at a time.

So far I have a full fuel system, srp1, 250/200's, arp headstuds, gt4294, 910 valve springs, chromoly pushrods, aem water meth, and of course custom 6pos chip and gauges. The tranny and trac bars are coming soon.

Any kind of parts list would be great! P.s. Would the cryo'd forged rods work?
 
#2 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

Subscribed, as I have similar goals. :rockon:

"budget" and "700 hp" seem to be conflicting terms though...
 
#5 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

"money efficient 700hp bottom end"
My intent didn't come through:lookaround:...I want to do the same deal. Although I'm learning that reliability/durability at high power levels isn't cheap.

Let's not muck up Vander's thread....interested in hearing the recipe needed for a short block 700 hp 7.3.
 
#6 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

Yes, money efficient. I know its expensive but I don't want to spend $20k. Here's what I was thinking..... *** .20 mahle pistons with reworked bowls or just the hypermax .20 over pistons, cryo'd rods from ***, *** girdle, balanced rotating assembly, *** gapless rings, *** inconel valves, ported and polished heads, and either *** firerings or cometic headgaskets.
 
#8 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

Yes, money efficient. I know its expensive but I don't want to spend $20k. Here's what I was thinking..... *** .20 mahle pistons with reworked bowls or just the hypermax .20 over pistons, cryo'd rods from ***, *** girdle, balanced rotating assembly, *** gapless rings, *** inconel valves, ported and polished heads, and either *** firerings or cometic headgaskets.
will be a great set up
 
#10 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

If I was you I wouldn't waste my time pulling an engine to replace forged rods with forged rods. That makes no sense. Regardless of the treatment. I tell people all to often that if you cant aford to do it right the first time how will you be able to afford to do it over? If your budget allows it, buy a set of crowers and the necessary supporting mods to have a reliable high hp 7.3. Im not knocking using forged rods, I am however saying that its a crap shot every time you wood it. Anybody thats made power on forged rods will tell you, its not "if" its "when". If your comfortable with that, then give it hell. Its just something for you to ponder, but at 700hp goal estimates, I can guarentee you that *** will recommend you buy Crowers as well
 
#11 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

Good point 162. I just hadn't heard what they're rated to. I'm already takin a chance at 600 on stock forged rods.
 
#12 ·
Re: budget 700hp bottom end

I think I may throw a cam in there as well.

So, what do you wide open performance guys think?

Also do you think I could get by with this list for spraying to 700-800hp?- crower rods, pistons with reworked bowls, girdle, balanced rotating assembly, and cometics. I want to save a little for a cam.
 
#15 ·
I don't care. I have a couple good spare forged motors. Don't preach do it once to me. I know. If I blow something big effing deal. I want to get as much as I possibly can before it blows. When it does I'll swap in my spare bottom end with some built items that I have listed and probably leave the nos alone.
 
#16 ·
cryoed forged rods ftw. i have those *** girdle, balanced and stock 30 over pistons. they are fly cut but no bowl work to keep comp up. o and filled about an inch from deck height.
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
I just wish I had some hard numbers. Like for instance, pmr's are good to about 425ish and forged rods are good to about 600ish. What about forged rods that are heat treated, polished, peened, and cryod? What would that be good to? If I'm only ever going to hit 750ish give or take 50, then why spend $2,700 when I can spend $1k to have rods that will suit my needs?


But I digress. The point of this thread is i just want to know what a budget 700hp bottom end takes.
 
#41 ·
I just wish I had some hard numbers. Like for instance, pmr's are good to about 425ish and forged rods are good to about 600ish. What about forged rods that are heat treated, polished, peened, and cryod?
I think that while you understand what you need to get where you want to be, you're missing something about forged rods, and what working them over does for you.

I know of an engine that was put together, with shot peened and polished forged rods, plus cryo, that didn't make it 20 miles.

I had a set up on a PMR motor, that was runnin close to 400, if not a bit over. Had 28k on it like that. Drove like an idiot on empty roads, had at least 30 hooks on it, hit the rev limiter at 4k a few times, a few drag races, towed heavy in the hot tune all the time, etc. Treated it like crap because I had a spare motor AND a spare vehicle to drive to work.

Rather than puttin my nice clean, freshly machined spare block together with forged rods, I got a great deal (not so much in retrospect) on a T444E forged rod motor with 140k on it. Tore it down to a long block, looked everything over as good as I could with my limited tools. Retorqued the mains, put an OBS cam in it from the spare motor, studded and springed it, and swapped all the go fast parts from the PMR motor over to it. So the differences were, studs, and springs. Same turbo, injectors, HPOP, fuel system, etc.

It's sitting in my driveway right now, sounding like it outa be chuckin a rod any second. I got 1000 miles out of it.

Forged rod bottom ends, are literally a gamble. The PMR motor was factory assembled with 230K when I pulled it. Never a single hickup.

The forged rod motor, I can't answer for. Dunno what it's life was like, but it should've held everything the PMR motor did, without a second thought. Maybe I disturbed something messin with the mains, even though the caps never came off, that was just enough to smoke a bearing.

But hopefully that illustrates how much of a gamble these bottom ends are.

Oh, this is what I've found so far, haven't got it out of the truck for a complete tear down yet. HPOP res screen.



a true 400hp to the wheels in the DD/tow tune is plenty for most people out there for day to day use. I think we as a community have lost sight of what all these terms actually mean. My DD is 650hp capable but is quite content at 400ish ponies day in and day out.
:whs:

Of the various diesel and gas trucks I've owned or driven that were runnin hotter than stock, you get much over 400-450 and it get's to the point where goin WOT on the street isn't an intelligent option anymore. To much smoke, to little road to run out on, not enough traction in 2wd on dirty pavement, etc.

400-450 feels pretty damn good, it's enough to make you smile a little anyway.
 
#19 ·
LOL, you sure didn't stay at 600 very long. Are you planning on building up one of the other motors or taking yours out?
 
#20 ·
:hehe: I haven't even tried it on my hot tune yet! :hehe: Just looking to the future. I already know I want more! A friend of mine keeps doing something to his dodge every time I do something to mine. I just want to stay a couple steps ahead! Haha! My dick's bigger! :hehe:


Yeah, I'll build up my other late 99 motor since nobody wants to buy it or the 96 motor. Then it'll set in the shop till I find the time to swap them out or get the infamous window mod.
 
#21 ·
I just dont understand why you are willing to spend the money on everything else to get you there except rods.
So your going to put a girdle, cam and ported heads on it and then see if will hold?
Have you seen what a rod can do to your girdle and cam when it lets go? Or are you OK with buying those parts twice along with the cost of machineing another block?
Oh and a partial block fill is cheap insurance.
Good luck and more power to you.
 
#23 ·
At 700 your rods will want to say hypermax, crower,r&r, or carillo.
And not have the word stock in it at all, coated pistons would be better.
Powerstrokejunkie had the perfect block for that a while back. Fwiw
 
#24 ·
Yeah, I get that. I understand guys. Don't think I'm just trying to scimp out on these things. I haven't ever heard anyone say what a worked over forged will hold. That's why I asked. If it definitely wont hold then yeah, sure I'll get billet. Just askin. Now, as far as the girdle and everything goes, no I wont be taking that chance. The chance is being taken on the stock bottom end motor. I want to see what that puppy will hold and for how long!
 
#26 ·
Why do you need an exact number on what a forged rod will hold? None of them have ever acted the same. The biggest problem I see here is there is no old man in a robe and sandals screaming from a mountain side about two tablets he has just acquired, filled with Ten Commandments of how to screw yourself royaly when building a budget 7.3, for you to go by. If there was, Im sure you'd rest assured knowing the truth with a sense of peace. So in the meantime, if you happen to own a pistol, grab it, and please... shoot yourself in the foot now to get it out of the way. Then feel free to push a set of $400 rods with a $150 treatment on them to the max!! Remember, bad and freaky chit happens all the time. A filled block, a girdle, performance cam, ported heads, Line honing, balancing, boring, etc., all that adds up when you start having to do chit over, just sayin.

Not trying to be a dik, just shooting you straight.
 
#25 ·
i dont think budget and 600+ belong in the same sentence. 550+ can get destructive quick if everything isnt just right. 700, well you'll be holding a grenade with the pin pulled regardless of the build, parts, tunes, etc.... all it takes is 1 flaw or 1 faulty part. I tried the budget route about 3 times and all that did was cost me 3x as much money. I bet with all my engine builds ive spent 30k+ (3 rebuilds by local shop) when if i would've just went the right way i'd been good at 12-14k. Its not just worrying about the engine at that point, then it becomes trans and drive line issues along with possible engine flaws. If 4-5 years ago i knew what i know now, i'd have hung my #### up a long time ago or stayed at 425hp.
 
#27 ·
I wouldn't put in a girdle unless you are going with Crowers or Hypermax rods. Depending on who's girdle it is, (Pricewise girdles are expensive)when you do throw a rod, chances are that its going to take the girdle out with it. I wouldn't do that if I were you.
 
#30 ·
Again, failure to communicate. When I put a girdle in I'll be doing Crower rods if that's what I need. The motor I take the chance on will be a stock bottom end.
 
#28 ·
Wow. Such negativity in the room!

Ok, here's my idea of "cost effective".

Girdle-$1250
Hypermax pistons-$685
Crower rods-$2600
Balanced rotating assembly-$?
Cylinders bored to pistons-$?
Cometic headgaskets-$420
Head work-$? May do it myself.

Total-$5k + machine work. Like I said, budget. I doubt I do fill.
 
#34 ·
#1 This is the second thread of mine you have mucked up with negativity. Why? Contribute something positive or move on to another.

#2 Don't worry about what I do and don't have. You may have seen a portion of my attached garage where i did the work since it was -20 outside and it was heated, but that was for humor. Shut the he!! up about what you don't know. I have nothing to prove to you about ability, workspace, or tools. I know what I have and will need. That's all I need to know.

#3 Again, I know what my ability is and what I have and haven't seen. No need to prove anything to some jackazz with a keyboard. Go fuk yourself.
 
#35 ·
Just trying to provide you with experience I have gained from hard mistakes solely of ignorance, and might save you from making some similar mistakes you may not see quite yet by offering some "negativity" on the subject. I have been down the road and spent the money learning the hard way about building up an engine, and it may not come out the way youd like to see help offered all the time but trust me you have a long road ahead of you. To me it seems your goals are a little unrealistic, the expectations you have set may be a little swollen- 700 isnt attainable overnight. HP becomes a pain in the ass real quick when you dont have an unlimited budget. I tried chasing HP for a while, and now i wish i could go back to that time and get my 20-30 thousand dollars back and put it towards a house or something to show for. I am still paying on a loan for something i do not have anymore, and every month it reminds me how much of a mistake it was. To me it seems like you are falling down the same path i was on a few years ago. Ill stay out of your threads though, good luck
 
#73 ·
Excellent post. Honest truth with valuable first hand information. I've followed Kris and his progress over the years and am so thankful myself I never went down that road, although I sure wanted to....

Nothing wrong with building a monster, just be prepared to have disposable cash on hand to make it happen and then some.
 
#36 ·
We start recommending girdles, fire ring kits, and billet rods to anyone looking to make over 500hp. Anyone that believes they need a 600+hp daily driven reliable truck has most likely never actually driven/owned one. Because most that have will tell you 400-450 is more than enough for 90% of a 'daily drivers' requirements.


As most of these guys have already said, can it be done? Yes. But it's always cheaper to it right the first time.
 
#37 ·
Then tell me what you want to say without being a dik about it. See? That last post I understand and appreciate. I just want to know what parts I need from the folks like yourself that have been there.

So what's wrong with the parts and prices I listed, the mods I already have, and some spray to make 700? I'm stopping at 700ish for sure. Its a DD that will only see about 350hp except 5 or 6 times a year when I hit the track or hook to a sled.
 
#39 ·
If thats all, go with the stocker and when it pops drop another in. You can blow up those three, be tired of it by then and be out less.

RockinJW makes an excellent point. I had one that was 500+ and it was major overkill as my dd.

I say leave the 600+ to the competition only trucks, there really is no point in it on a budget. Hell, I realized before going in as deep as Powerstrokejunkie that I could never fill the hp needs on my budget.

I have great respect for those at that level, lots of time, work frustration and money tied up.

But GD was it fun!
 
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