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DieselPower Magazine Article Must Read!

12K views 85 replies 27 participants last post by  rickatic 
#1 · (Edited)
Picked the magazine up at WM seen the cover and couldn't put it down.

The article is---> King of the Hill {Ford vs Chevy} 18,900-pound tow test @ 11,000 feet!!

I went to their website, but I could not find the test to post the url...

The end results is quite suprising to me, though I don't own a 2011 I envy those who do. Those who are interested ya might pick u up a copy... I will keep looking on thier web site... Maybe I will find it and post the url here.

I was curious of your thoughts.
 
#2 ·
im calling shenanigans, i find it hard to believe that fords best, most powerful motor ever has been beaten by the 6.6 which has been out forever when its been known that some stock 6.0 can take them
 
#35 ·
GM did not do the test. They only bought the trucks cuz Ford didn't wanna put their money where their mouth was. Pickuptrucks dot com did the test and a former Ford tech did the driving. He even admitted that he started the test biased. This is the best test I have ever seen and if the Ford had won I would say the same thing. What is more important to me than the whooping the Chevy put on the Ford going up the mountain is how much better the Chevy held the load back coming down. I get o some really steep grades with heavy loads and I hate riding brakes. Ford lost bad but life goes on and the earth keeps turning, GET OVER IT!!!! If you have one and like it I am happy for you and I would be glad to drive one if the company I work for buys one. If your life is not complete because Ford has lost a few tests with this engine then you really need to get a new life!
 
#6 ·
Dang sorry fellas I didn't know it was that old of topic since the magazine just hit our WM 2 days ago. Mods please delete this worthless thread.
 
#7 ·
Sorry if this upsets you but,,,,Chevy challenged Ford straight up to a head to head competition.
AFTER Ford declined, Chevy decided to go ahead and do the test without Ford.
They asked the magazine to conduct the test. Chevy paid for both trucks.
The stipulation was that the magazine had to purchase the trucks off the lot from dealer stock (no ringers) and that they had to be as equal as possible.
The magazine was free to purchase the trucks from whichever dealer they chose. The magazine was also able to choose the test driver.

I believe that Chevy had already done the test and knew that they would win.
That's why they issued the challenge.
I also believe that Ford knew they would lose.
That's why they declined.

Ask yourself a hard question.
If this test was rigged, why doesn't Ford respond with their own test?
Instead, Ford has been silent. Why?
 
#12 ·
They aren't hurting either. I have seen a lot of new LML D/Max's running around N. Ga the last month. But, I see a TON of new 6.7's running around. What I haven't seen a lot of is new Cummins.
 
#13 ·
Hmmm... Ford did respond, kind of... If you go to the Ford website Ford did its own test with the 2011 Duramax. It was on fuel economy while towing, and according to the test the Ford was more efficient while towing more weight. They didn't directly address the test that Chevy did, but it doesn't matter, until Ford reads these posts and tells us, "hey guys, don't worry we didn't participate because we were worried about biased twisted results... We didn't want GM using our cash to create a smoke and mirrors comparison!" Until Ford does this we are all going to speculate, pickuptrucks.com did a 16% grade test and the Ford lost, then they put the trucks in 4x4 and the Ford won! Was it traction control? Was it trailer sway control working overtime to keep such a heavy load in check? Were the over zealous Ford safety gnomes creating an unfair advantage for the Chevy? It is all possible! I bought a Ford after I looked at both, I enjoy my truck! There are a few things I would like to change, like the door seals! THEY SUCK! I would stiffen the frame some and thats about it! I love the rest!!
 
#15 ·
I believe that the Ford test was before this one and if so, it couldn't be classified as a response.
And I must point out, that some here were insinuating that Chevy rigged their challenge even though they asked Ford to participate,,,,,yet Ford did not invite Chevy to their test. Could it have been rigged?:eek:

I am quite sure that Ford does read these posts. Any smart maunufacturer would want to know what the buying public thinks. A little forum reading could save them millions in survey and advertising costs.
 
#16 ·
HAHA Huntindog, you must be a Chevy fan... I know that Ford didn't accept and I know that Ford didn't ask Chevy to participate. It would be stupid to ask Chevy to supply a truck for Ford's own marketing scheme, just doesn't make good business sense. Same for Ford, there is no way that they are going to supply something they know GM is going to use as a marketing tool, it isn't good business. But you know, this is a place for speculation as much as it is for fact and at the moment we are all speculating (you included). We will never know if the test was truly fair, and then there is the adage about not trusting everything you see (or read for that matter)! Would you pull money out of your own pocket to help your competitor threaten the legitimacy of your product? Nope you wouldn't. I do appreciate your input though, if you are in fact a GM customer you can tell us about how much you really enjoy your new truck, and maybe you could even help those of us that have never owned a Gm truck understand more about it.
 
#17 ·
:hehe:

Well when Ford declined Chevys challenge they did the best they could by asking a magazine to conduct the test.
Of course that was their second choice. The Pope was busy:D

I am not brand blind. I have owned all of the big 3 at some time.
There are many things I like about the Ford. I really wanted to be convinced that they got the motor right this time. My decision really turned on the fact that Ford cheaped out on the regen system. They are STILL using the motor injectors (although now only 4) to fuel the regens. This in spite of the fact that all (ford, chevy,dodge) had oil dilution issues when using this system.
Ford seems to be content with just reducing the problem (even stating allowable dilution percentages) while GM installed a 9th injector in the exhaust , after the motor and eliminated the problem.
Dodge has still got their head in the sand and trying computer software tweaks to fix a hardware problem.
 
#20 ·
Huntindog I don't think that you get it... But that's ok... Its a free country, I hope that your 9th injector serves you well... But I am curious as to why you even brought this up... Are you suggesting that GM's installation of a 9th injector was responsible for the results of this test. Haha, just messing with you! But honestly you take yourself way too seriously and you argue like a lawyer. Just relax brutha!
 
#21 ·
Well the 9th injector acts as a afterburner.......LOL
No that has nothing to do with the power. As you must realiize, I was making the point that Ford cut a corner in the emissions dept. Going with a problem proven design. And that is why I passed on the Ford this time. If they cut a corner in a place that was screaming to be fixed,,,,where else in not so obvious places were corners cut? JMO of course.

When I made my decision, For was supposed to be more powerful by a little. As it turns out.....They are not.
No matter how you want to look at it this was a test that could not be rigged.
The trucks were purchased off of the lots at dealers selected by DP, not Chevy. In fact they were purchased somewhere over 1000 miles apart.

And it was a straight hill climb. Put to the floor and see what she will do test. No driver skill or technique would make any difference in such a test,,,,at least not this large a difference.

At any rate, if it were not true, it would be easy enough for anyone to replicate, and prove it wrong.
That hasn't happened:eek:
 
#23 ·
Should I go on a Dmax site and troll? Wait! I gotta make a living so my time is limited. Now I know where all the unemployment money is going, lol. Government money going to, government subjects to tout Government Motors. Love it. Begin flaming at Greenshield in 3...2....1.... I can hear the gubmint subjects tapping away in their P.J.'s while sipping soy lattes and eating organic potato chips. What fun!
 
#24 ·
Well to tell you the truth I think my dad's 6.7 is a dog. He didnt like it so he now drives a 6.2. And he likes it better. His next truck will be the d-max more than likely.
 
#25 ·
They did infact pass on the 9th injector, I downloaded a PDF that had everything there is to know on the Super Duty, and the best part is it was a Ford document. There are literally over 100 pages, I found it while looking for specs on the turbo they used... They explained in detail why they didn't go with a 9th injector, I will try to find it and post it so that everyone here can see it. I asure you they weren't cutting corners, I just don't want to attempt to quote it without being 100% accurate, if I did I would be eaten alive by the Bow-tie boys on this site. Do we have any Dodge fans that want to chime in to tell us how terrible our trucks are?? I just want to give everyone a fair shot at the blue oval and my 60k dollar choice.
 
#26 ·
I'll tell you the truth. My brother's uncle's brother's son drove a 6.6 and thought the American People got ripped off and now drives a Ford. He likes it better and the 6.7 will probably be his next buy in 2013 more than likely.
 
#27 ·
BRB, got to post some anecdotal stories about Fords in a few Dmax sites while posing as a Dmax owner.
 
#30 ·
Regarding the "Rumble", do not bet too much on your Chevy anywhere else but above 8000 feet altitude. Consider this:

As to the magazine comparisons, they did not use the latest version of the Ford for their evaluations. Not one published "all brand comparison" has tested the Ford with the 400/800 upgrade. The initial PUT.com, Trailer Life Magazine and Wards Automotive "shootouts" were all completed with the 390/735 power package Ford. Only PUT.com has retested the Ford with the 400/800 upgrade. They did an update on their earlier "Shootout" after testing the 400/800 Ford. They were clearly impressed by the new specification truck. In their initial "shootout" the Chevy scored the highest total points but were only 1/2 point ahead of the Ford. After the 400/800 truck was run, PUT.com publicly stated that they wish they had the 400/800 Ford truck for their shootout because it would have won.

PUT.com also has stated that the traction control system on the Ford is more sensitive than the GM. I can state from my own experience that the TC is too sensitive. The truck defuels at the first sign of traction loss. PUT.com said they were certain had they turned off TC the Ford would have been the winner in the acceleration tests. This fact can be easily demonstrated by looking at the acceleration graphs published by PUT.com in the first "shootout". Simply compare the graphs for the loaded or unloaded runs. You can see for yourself that the Chevy gets the Ford out of the chute. PUT.com mentioned that they just could not get the Ford to hook up at the launch. The lines in the graph are measurably separated. Look at the finish line end of the graph and you can clearly see the Ford has closed the gap to almost nil. It is obvious the Ford is coming on like gang busters. Another 200 feet and the 390/735 Ford would have passed the Chevy. I do not see Chevy out there campaigning for another "shootout" at the altitudes 90% of these trucks are actually driven. Analysis of the original PUT.com tests tell us why.

However, this did not stop Chevy from using some knowledge they gained by testing the Ford at altitude. This resulted in the challenge Chevy made to test these trucks at altitude. Ford declined to bite at this farce, which became known as "The Rumble in the Rockies". They knew the outcome. Chevy got PUT.com and Diesel Power Magazine to endorse this "testing". Chevy bought both trucks and paid for the entire event. They handed Ford their hat. Even I am a little embarrassed. But the facts are fairly simple. They are about engineering choices made by the manufacturers. Without going into an even longer explanation, it is all about broad spectrum performance versus high altitude performance. The turbochargers are both built by Garrett. Chevy's is larger and breathes better at altitude. Fords is smaller but performs in the much more common lower altitudes better. Fuel mileage, drive train reliability and drive-ability considerations drove these decisions. If all you plan to do is race up that hill on I 70 to the Eisenhower Tunnel, you might want the Chevy. By the way, this is the only comparison done so far with the 400/800 Ford.

In all other cases, the Ford is right there...and often ahead. Keep in mind that the "Rumble" was conceived by Chevy AFTER they were beaten up their own 16% hill by the 390/735 Ford F350 Dually in the priginal PUT.com Shootout. Just watch the video.

If you would like to see some real owners testing their trucks on a steep grade, check out the thread linked below:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...ith-video.html


Regards
 
#31 ·
The funny thing is, by the sounds of it none of you have pulled big trailers in the Rockey Mountains. I've been, still love big block chevys. And dad went to the 05 Dmax for fuel mileage and power pulling which sucked i went to a 2004 ford 6.0 then dad got a 06 07 ford 6.0. Now we have the 06 6.0, 08 Dmax and 6.4 pulled 20-22k all over the usa. All the trucks will pull better than the ford showed in the mag, and i have heard the new ford will out pull the 6.4 so they had a bad truck or a soft foot. I know the 08s ford chevy DRW pull the same stock to stock 15k miles with same trailer 20-22k behind both trucks. Now just a 8-10k trailer. ford SRW will pull better than DRW chevys run the same. Thats Just what i can say from past pulls.
 
#32 ·
Umm, ya, you are the perveribial "Day late, and 20.00 short" on this one,,,, no one here puts much weight into the test, it was skewed for sure, with GM buying both trucks,,,,
 
#33 ·
Chevy bought both trucks from a dealer and the mag people pick them up. So it should have been a fair test. I was just giving real world data for you all, because i have pulled trailers over the passes more than once!! And how do you know they are fixed the last pull off they did in diesel power ford lost too. Maybe the ford is at lower power till 5k miles for a brake in.
 
#37 ·
Where does one start...there is so much wrong with the above post. Chevy did the test, period. They proposed the "Rumble" after getting their butts beat with a 390/735 powered Ford on their own 16% grade at the GM proving ground. This is not speculation, look at the video's in the original PUT.com "Shootout". Chevy paid for the entire "Rumble" test. They wrote the test parameters. The driver was paid to drive the truck's according to the arbitrary specifications set forth by Chevy. Any rational thinker would surely realize that Chevy knew the outcome of this test before they proposed it. Ford engineers certainly knew they were altitude limited. They had tested both the Garrett turbos, their production version and the Garret on the DuraMax, prior to design finalization. They knew they would lose at altitude, but were surprised by the amount. Chevy will beat the Ford up that high hill every time. Do you drive all your miles over one of the handful of mountain passes that exceed 9000 feet elevation?

The downhill run is even worse. First off, I have a 13000 pound Big Horn fiver that I have pulled over 8000 miles. I have been on 3 mile long 9% downgrades several times. I never tried to hold 53 miles an hour, exactly, let the truck build speed to 60mph and then ride the brakes to slow it down. These were the parameters set by the testers. They were set high enough to make the test driver nervous but he stuck with the test criteria. I have descended these 9% grades at 50mph, with the tow/haul engaged, which with a tap of the brake pedal, turns on the engine brake, tapped the brake pedal and descended to the bottom 3 miles below with no increase in speed. I also tried it at 40 mph, additional brake tap drops speed 10mph, and the results were the same. The GM engine brake is likely stronger than the Ford's at higher speeds. At safe descent speeds, set by the driver for the prevailing conditions, the Ford engine brake does a good job. If it takes a slower speed, so be it, but it works well.

My position is not based on speculation or the blind following of some magazine/internet blog. It is based on analysis of all the facts and 19000 miles of actually driving the truck I talk about. How about you...

Regards
 
#38 ·
The downhill run is even worse. First off, I have a 13000 pound Big Horn fiver that I have pulled over 8000 miles. I have been on 3 mile long 9% downgrades several times. I never tried to hold 53 miles an hour, exactly, let the truck build speed to 60mph and then ride the brakes to slow it down. These were the parameters set by the testers. They were set high enough to make the test driver nervous but he stuck with the test criteria. I have descended these 9% grades at 50mph, with the tow/haul engaged, which with a tap of the brake pedal, turns on the engine brake, tapped the brake pedal and descended to the bottom 3 miles below with no increase in speed. I also tried it at 40 mph, additional brake tap drops speed 10mph, and the results were the same. The GM engine brake is likely stronger than the Ford's at higher speeds. At safe descent speeds, set by the driver for the prevailing conditions, the Ford engine brake does a good job. If it takes a slower speed, so be it, but it works well.


Regards
My chevy exhaust brake will slow my setup ( about 24K gross) down to a crawl if I want it to. When I first got it, I experimented with it. It is WAYYYYY stronger than it needs to be. I usually just leave the cruise control on, both up and down hills. If a slow corner comes up I tap the cruise down to the suggested speed. I never touch the brakes.
 
#40 ·
That URL won't fit on my screen... I did manage to go to the site though, and there were these guys that didn't own PSD's but kept telling me what they were like! I think that it must have been a magic site where everyone know more than I do, even though I own a PSD and they don't.
 
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