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QSSB Turbo System Installed....my impressions

13K views 89 replies 29 participants last post by  Doakster 
#1 ·
This past week I finished up installing my new QSSB turbo kit from Wide Open.

Mostly I needed to do something about my turbo system since the uppipes were leaking so badly, that when I pulled the collector and uppipes out as one unit, one uppipe just slide out of the collector.

Unfortunately when I took everything apart, my uppipe bolts were so rusted there was absolutely no way to get them out except cut them, which meant the manifolds needed to come out, which were also so rusted the shop that did them had to cut all the bolts and weld on nuts to the studs and get them out that way. It was quite a mess. They ended up replacing the oil cooler too because that was so rusted it was almost ready to go.

Anyway, I finished up the install. Over all the EGTs are much lower, runs at about 700 on the highway, and I haven't got it over 1000-1100 yet. Seems the EGTs just climb very very slowly. Runs at about 4-5psi cruising on the highway.

Also the turbo has a nice linear pull to it when the boost is up. My stock turbo was surging uncontrollably, to the point I could just barely roll in it on the highway and it would surge.

I can't get this turbo to surge at all, which makes driving very nice.

I do however have two noticeable issues.....

For one my mileage has taken a nose dive. I'm burning a lot more fuel than my stock turbo with leaking up pipes. This makes no sense to me at all, it seems I should have gotten a little better mileage, no idea why this is happening.

And second the truck has a little "lurch" at about 1700-1800RPM, almost as if the peddle was stuck or it was not getting enough fuel up until this point. Even it my stock tune it does this.

Do you guys think getting new tunes to match the turbo would solve these issues??

I really can't see how bolting on a new turbo that flows a lot more air would have HURT my mileage:confused:
 
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#2 ·
It's because your seeing more boost at cruising speeds. This is because you added a quick spooling charger and fixed your up-pipes. This will put you higher in the fueling tables, meaning your injecting more fuel. The Hypermax mounting kit moves the MAP pressure pre intercooler, which means it also sees boost a little bit quicker than post intercooler. You could try moving it back post intercooler to see if it lowers your cruising boost at the MAP sensor some.
 
#4 ·
Am I missing something here? The boost tap for the MAP sensor is still in the middle of the Y-Pipe with the Hypermax Y-Pipe, but the boost tap for my boost gauge is now pre-intercooler and basically right out of the turbo, but the MAP is still that same...or I'm crazy.
 
#6 ·
Gotcha, like I mentioned my MAP is still plumbed into the center of the Y-Pipe and my boost gauge is plumb on the driver side IC pipe into the bung that is welded into the pipe.

I guess I need to get some new tunes to solve this issue.
 
#10 ·
:whs:

It still takes the same amount of fuel to move you down the road at X mph.
Several different turbos, injectors, and tunes, I've never seen a huge difference in MPG. Most of it is the way you are driving probably. Cold weather maybe?> warming it up longer? idling time?
 
#9 ·
what if you moved your boost sensor to the cold air side? that should lower your pressure 1-2 psi and give a smoother rise in pressure. your ecu should recognize this and fuel accordingly. maybe it would save you from getting new tunes right away.
 
#11 ·
If your boost numbers at cruising are up, then your fuel mileage will go down, have your tunes adjusted to bring that no load cruising boost number down. And all will be better....

The surging your feeling is either tunes, throttle pedal issue,or an injector going out. In that order....

Start with a quick call to your tuner, and have the tunes adjusted I would bet everything comes back around....
 
#13 ·
Glad you got the install all finished up, when we talked on the phone, it sounded like you had a full day in with those manifolds. As for your other stuff, haven't really heard many complaints with a drop in mileage. But we do recommend driving the truck with the new turbo and old tunes to see how it reacts. Then make tuning adjustments from there. Like Wacker said, a quick call to your tuner should help with some of the issues you're having.

You were running DP Tuner right? Jody runs a QSSB on his 2002 truck and our GQSSB on his Excursion, so he's got quite a bit of seat time live tuning those turbos. I bet he can dial that thing right in for you...

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help. Thanks
 
#23 ·
I think you have a clue, but you're not right.

The amount of fuel, rpm, load controls the boost. If you trick the computer into thinking it's got 15 psi when it doesn't then that is one thing but has nothing to do with the OP's problem.

With that being said... the hotside IC pipe for boost reference in cab can be higher then what the OP previously saw depending on where he was pulling his reference from pre-turbo install. My money is on the fact that the right foot is causing the fuel mileage issue.
 
#19 ·
Let me clarify a couple things...a couple people have caught onto what's going on and where my MAP was/is tapped into as well as my in cab boost gauge.

Before the install I had a stock turbo set up with the exception of a boost fooler taping off the Y-Pipe, and off that same line I had a T fitting also feeding the in cab boost gauge. So essentially the MAP and the in-cab boost gauge were reading one in the same.

After the install the ONLY thing that was change was the location of the in cab boost gauge tap, which is now directly out of the turbo in the driver side IC pipe where hypermax welds in a bung. So now the MAP is at the SAME tap, still out of the Y-Pipe. I'd post a pic but photobucket is messed up right now.

So....maybe I'm seeing 1-2 psi more on my boost gauge but that shouldn't really matter. The MAP is still at the same tap point.

As far as my right foot, it's NOT heavy at all. Honestly, I don't really get on my truck. My mileage run was done with a full tank, on cruise control for about 2.5hrs, on a section of highway that I've run countless times.

Before with my leaking uppipes and stock turbo, I would burn a little more than a 1/4 tank. On this run I burned almost a 1/2 tank, the needle was just above 1/2 after the drive. Obviously a very noticeable difference

My thought is that it has to be tuning, I mean the only thing I changed was the turbo. I doubt an injector went bad at the same time. And the "lurch" in the throttle peddle to me, hints toward tuning too.

I suppose I could re-install my boost gauge in the MAP line, so I can tell exactly what the MAP is seeing. It would probably be wise for who ever retunes my chip to know this as well.

I'm kind leaning toward Beans or Swamps for new tunes, seems a lot of positive feedback on their tuning.

Thoughts??
 
#20 ·
Why don't you do what was suggested and talk to jody.If he is running this turbo then obviously he will know how to tune for it.It takes a couple minutes to call and talk to him.If he says no its not tuning related then look for a new tuner to try.You will want a tuner that has spent time with this turbo or knows exactly how it works and has tuned for it before.So if you do go with a different tuner then you want one that has tuned for this turbo before.But I would talk to jody first.
 
#21 ·
I suppose I can't argue with that suggestion...I'll give him a call and chat things over...then again change can be good:D
 
#24 ·
Also the mpg recording procedure from the sound of it was not actually hand calculated but was only grossly checked by driving a certian amount of miles that had been done in the past and seeing how much the gauge needle moved. Also we are now all into winter fuel which takes a few mpg off any fuel economy.

The ONLY way to accurately measure fuel mpg is to fill up to where fuel is sitting without foam visibly in the filler neck mouth. Then record odometer or set trip-o-meter. Drive your typical route or long trip whatever using the best economy tactics. Then fill up again to the same spot of fuel sitting at the mouth. Check based on fill up amount. Any other way simply is not acceptably accurate.
 
#25 ·
The only thing I can add is maybe winter fuel is also messing with his MPG #s. Mine are down a couple of MPGs and that is the only change I can think of.
 
#27 ·
Fellas....for the right foot theory.....I installed the system, got the truck up and running, drove it for maybe 30miles on a 1/4 tank, just to test out the system. Then filled the tank that night, and parked the truck The next night I warmed the truck up for 10mins or so and drove is maybe 5miles. The following morning I did another 10min warm up and took off on my normal highway drive while on cruise basically the entire time. I've probably only gone 3/4 throttle twice on the new turbo. Like I said I am not at all a heavy foot driver.

Sure, I didn't fill the tank back up and do a hand calculation after the long drive, but I know what my mileage is at certain points of the trip and the fuel gauge was way low compare to what it usually is.

I probably won't be doing another mileage run like that for a week or so.

In the mean time I talked with Jody, and he definitely mentioned my tunes are not set up for the turbo, but he was concerned about the mileage himself being that the only thing I changed out was the turbo.

I ordered AE and it should be here next Monday. I suppose I will put the truck through a Buzz and Cyl contribution test. For awhile now I've had a far amount of blue smoke at start up, which will go away in 5-10mins depending on the weather, and I'm sure this might be ICP related.

Any other suggestions on what to look at when I hook up the AE to it??
 
#32 ·
Thats a ton of idle time %:eek:
 
#28 ·
i'd get tweaked tunes from dp then look for issues.
too bad you dont have the f6...quicker tune loads.
I'd ask jody what kind of info to look for. maybe pm jeoy at term.
they seem to talk together pretty well. joey would have a good idea what to hpop wise prob not the issue but good to rule out.
 
#29 ·
Been talking with Dave at Swamps about a number of things and or possible issues. Can't say enough about how much info/help Dave has offered and I have never even purchased from them before.

My AE arrived the other day and I will have some time to play around and scan the truck tomorrow.

Also, will have another opportunity to do a mileage run...and rest assure it will be closely monitored and hand calculated, with a very light foot and all highway driving....we'll see.
 
#30 ·
OK So how does the truck calculate load then?

you went from 0 psi at cruising to 4 psi... the map sensor is seeing that number and fueling. Easy Fuling tables are based of a bunch of things, but if that sensor is seeing boost it don't know if your going up a hill, or running with the cruise on......... IMO just needs some tweeking in the tunes and all will be well again......

As Mike said it aint rocket science......

By the way can anybody tell me where the "load sensor" is on these trucks.... LOL
 
#31 ·
Only thing I can say here is....
Its possible that seeing more boost may hurt it on acceleration, as it would add fuel based on that, but once your up and running a set speed, I dont see what difference it makes. If your running 65 mph, and you add fuel what happens? hmmmmm......That was my reasoning. I know when my boost reference line cracked, it was a dog taking off, but ran just fine once up to speed. Fixed it, and boost comes up much quicker, easier to get the turbo to spool, and mileage dropped a bit. BUT, I still get the same 16 mpg on the open road empty now. The load sensor is your right foot! hahah
More boost at a given speed , unless it adds too much drive pressure SHOULD get better mpg. At least in my mind anyway? Reason--burning more of the fuel already there, and doing it more efficiently. Add fuel--add speed, take away fuel reduces speed. Still dont see how it can work any other way. Timing, now thats a whole nother story. But thats got nothing to do with a turbo swap causing the drop , unless something else was changed at the same time.
What did I miss? Please explain, and show me why thats wrong thinking.
Seriously. If I got it wrong, I'd love to see how, and with a logical explanation, not just because I said so.

Scott
 
#43 ·
Yes....that's true...I assumed the stock turbo and leaking up pipes were the major cause of this. My mileage wasn't horrible with the stock turbo and leaking up pipe, but probably 1-2mpg lower than it should be.

I'm definitely not knocking the QSSB, I've been very please with how it runs so far, and *** and yourself gave me a great deal on everything as well as some help over the phone, just can't wrap my head around why the mileage seems to have gone down further with the turbo swap. I am doing a long drive tomorrow and will post up the mileage results.

But....I scanned the truck today with AE, and seems like I do have some underlying issues, which I thought might be the case.

The tests I performed were....

- KOER, got a P0476 Exhaust Pressure Control Valve Range/Performance, I'm assuming this is because there is no longer a valve in my system with the QSSB setup

-KOEO, threw a P1298 Injector Driver Module Failure

-Injector Buzz Test, also threw a P1298 during the test but all 8 injectors sounded very close to one another. Not sure if a P1298 usually comes up during this test or not.

-Contribution Test, on the first test #8 failed, did the test 2 more times and pasted the test both times. This was at Idle, on a somewhat cold motor.

So what do you guys think about the results?

I will have some more mileage info by tomorrow, and will probably hook up the AE during the drive to monitor a few things, I also want to check what the MAP is reading verse my boost gauge. Will probably do a contribution test during the drive too.

Thoughts? I appreciate all the info and talk so far.
 
#44 ·
Tell you what Andy. It sounds like you're not happy at all with what's going on here. It's gotta be that turbo. You need to pull it ASAP cause it's your issue! I've got a van turbo w/ 1.15 exhaust housing and a set up up-pipes that are using the Chevy donutes coated in anti-sieze w/ no leaks. It'll be a nice turbo for what you want, you'll have no surge issues, and it'll solve all your problems.

Then just send that junk QSSB turbo and kit to me after you receive mine and I'll inspect it for you!!! How's that sound???;)
 
#45 ·
Funny how it would be just that easy....I think I'll pass.
 
#47 ·
This could be wrong just wanted to throw it out here but when you did the turbo upgrade you put more air in the cylinder so would that make the computer send more fuel because there is more air to try to get the ratio back to how it was with the stock turbo?
 
#50 ·
Diesels dont really care about air/fuel ratio. They are throttled off fuel, not air. So , to go faster, you add fuel. To go slower, take fuel away. As for the air part, more air makes it more efficient, less smoky, run cooler. But the fact remains, that if you add fuel it will go faster, make more power. (up to a point) Richer usually just means more smoke higher EGT. You could take the turbo off a 7.3 and it still makes enough power to run 55 mph on flat roads. Might smoke a bit, but it will do it. Heck, with 0 boost, mine will still tow 15,000+. Pretty smoky, and not fun, but it did it for several miles till I could pull off the road.
 
#56 ·
I had this problem with a van turbo compared to the stock turbo. 35" tires. I got crap milage on the hwy, hot temps, but no boost. put the stock turbo on and picked up milage while running 5-7 psi boost. seems like boost is more efficient because its burning what fuel is available, also less pedal to get the same result.
 
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