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Why mess with the CP3?

28K views 67 replies 25 participants last post by  1970something 
#1 ·
I don't understand why people dont use dual 6.4 stock pumps

Rudy and I have the biggest nozzles I know of and our rail pressure is awsome

No Spikes mine holds 25,600PSI with "200HP" nozzles at 1920PW.

May be I am missing something but theres no fancy electronics just splice and go. Is it cost?
I am pretty sure that the set up on my truck is the ultimate thus far

Custom built Rails with second feed lines on the front
Dual factory pump mounted to front crank pulley
4 lines feeding the rails cant hurt the flow thats for sure.

Really could you want any more? And if so would a CP3 give you any more? Is it cost or Space or what? I dont understand why I keep hearing cp3's on this forum.
Bare with the video a bit and it shows the fuel pump mount and 2nd rail feeds

 
#2 ·
The only reason i went with dual with a cp3 was because originally i was going to run a BIG cp3 only, out front, so i didnt have to fuk with the pump being back behind the valley, the pump that i wanted to run took forever to get built, and then when it finally did it was way over my price range for the time being. I still may run the single big pump later on down the road.

That being said the way mine is set up is i could probably switch to a factory ford pump.

The way the electronics are it wont really cost that much to run a bone stock cp3 up front, and cp3s are pretty easy to come by and arent much money, i picked up a modded LMM pump for 650 bucks.

PLUS there is no real KIT to run ford pumps
 
#3 ·
Cp3s are pretty cheap to modify. Like 1500 bucks for around 360 lph. I'm sure a lot of people will run dual factory pumps, but at the moment they are just kinda hard to find. That's why I have a new cp3 sitting on my table that just came today, haha. I'm trying to decide if I want to get rid of the factory pump and just run a modded cp3, or do like Dustin did and have both, or mod the cp3 and keep the factory vdo.
 
#20 ·
I don't think we can say the relief kits are not needed until we get a daily driver out there with dual stock pumps and stock fuel lines and test it for a little while. I will probably do it on my crew cab when I get all of the pulleys, but that will be one stock and one industrial pump. Upgraded fuel lines in regards to size would still be a good idea for volume.
 
#26 ·
Awesome Glad to hear Elites kit is about ready. 2 weeks will probably be 2 months but no big deal it is winter. 3,000 is cheap! As far as the street goes as long as the fuel lines are braced for vibrations I can not for see any issues. My truck drives runs and acts as if it just has one pump as far as spikes or surges or pump contol goes. I have 1000 miles on my set up and all is well. As for me to market my kit to the public no it is way to much money and custom to make into a kit. If anyone wants to duplicate it and build there own I will send them drawings of the coupling adapters etc and help out etc. etc.

I do beleive that because of the quad lines and dual feeds on the rails mine is still ultimate but I dont think the performance gains justify the extra costs. As far as Dyno results once we get back to summer fuel I will fly someone up here for a custom tune and roll some big numbers keep in mind the 984 / 1949 I made was on a Mustang MD250 first pull (easing into it) at a event and I was using a lot less spray (2) .74 jets then Rudy's 1046 on a different brand Dyno. Since my truck is 2WD it will also read higher. Either way if I dont break 1200 it wont be because of lack of fuel. Also it already has way to much power the way it is for a street truck dont talk to me about it either until you have 984 HP at the wheels in a short truck with a heavy diesel up front. This thing is dangerous and it will most likely not be converted to a race truck (caged) its way to nice to cut up.

As for advise,
Pre order a dual kit from Elite you will be happy with performance then a heavily modified single. Also IMO the dual factory pumps is the way to go.
I understand if its cost related to run a CP3, I as well had 2 CP3's just laying around seems like they are everywhere but we put one on a Dmax and I gave the other one to Matt at Spartan to play with. I built Matt from Spartan custom fuel rails with dual feeds and the lines to go from the dual feed to his crank mounted pump but am not sure if he will get around to putting his truck back together any time soon.
 

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#28 ·
Damn Rob its too bad u wouldnt wanna go ahead with producing ur kit. Id be one of the first in line :D I understand wat ur saying. Its a lot of money to custom make everything. Ur truck is truly unique and one of a kind. Gotta keep it that way.
 
#29 ·
I have logged on quite a few miles with the CP3 and it drives better than it did before with one pump. My CP3 is on a switch, with the cp3 off the truck smokes more and is slower of course. I can hit the switch at anytime. The only thing holding me back is injector size now. So drivability is not an issue at all, I have noticed zero issues so far. No relief kit seems to be needed after looking at data logs. One advantage is the CP3 is easily accessible and can be replaced easily. I’m not sure what pump combo is better but I do know DR Smoke’s setup is top notch. I think they both get the job done.
 
#34 ·
An orifice in its fuel rail.

If something happens to the pump it's not the end of the world to me. It’s a fun learning experience in my opinion.
 
#42 ·
No one can tell I have a second pump either until I point it out but i'n all honesty I am not the worlds number one electrical dude or I may have considered a cp3. The access to my welder and machinist made my decision. The 2nd pump is the stock pump from the parts truck so I got it for core value which helped as well. My pump is very easy to change but original alignment is tricky on the bushing. I re built the hp fuel lines to make them easy to change just i'n case and braced them better using the same clips ss the factory hp lines use.
 
#44 ·
Getting back to the main questions on why a CP3
We chose to do a Dual pump kit using a CP3 for a few different reasons.

Main reason: Potential of fuel volume on a CP3 is greater after modifications.

Out of the box a Seimens will out flow a stock CP3 in a equal RPM operating range from one to the other. From what we scene in early testing with our first stage of modded 6.4 Pumps was no greater then 28% over stock. With the way that we went about increasing flow and volume, anything larger in displacement we scene longevity and wear to points we wanted to have no part of. Not to mention the cost factor of the parts and machining required to reach this level. I am not stating in any way that Elites Pump or Industrials pump is garbage or going to fail. From what I have scene they are preforming great (Though I would like to see the II pump on the same Test bench we use to see the actual flow number) With the close working relations that we have with Elite and knowing that Elite was in the process of developing a dual pump kit we found no reason to have two kits on the market. This pushed us towards using what we know the CP3 is capable of from our experiences with the Duramaxs. With having single pumps produce enough fuel to create upwards of 800hp on one pump we chose to go with what we knew worked and has provin itself time and time again for all kinds of driving / race applications. I have scene these same pumps maintain some of the craziest pulse and rail pressures with no issues, as of today I dont believe anybody in the 6.4 tunning world has reached these kinds of Rail PSI or pulse widths to date that some setups are running in the Duramax community.
One of the main reasons it took longer then expected to develop our CP3 kit is for the electronic side of things to have the ability to run a similar setup to what Dustin is currently running as well as having the ability of bypassing the 6.4 pump later on down the line and run just one large CP3 or Dual CP3's with out changing anything electronically.
On another note, Turning a CP3 or Seimens pump on or off with a switch is going to create a snowball effect of failures. Theres a reason why the Dual CP3 kits on a duramax have a control box designed the way that they do.

With all these different fuel options to go with one thing is certain that they will all provide enough fuel to run out of AIR.

PS. Larger displacement CP3's are in the works for 2011 then anything that has been available to date.
 
#48 ·
You confirmed what I was worried about in regards to highly modded Seimens pumps. As for the “snow ball effect” some more details would help. How about I leave the switch turned on running the CP3 full time? Also, I do not turn the pump on off, on off, on off, on off, on off, as I drive but I noticed RCD’s setup will be doing that with it’s TQ controller.

I applaud Dr. Smoke, Elite, EDP, RCD for developing these motors. I will keep no secretes and be honest if something happens with my Dual pump combo. I will never open a performance diesel shop but I would be happy to help with either testing new parts on my truck or supplying specialty alloys, water jet cutting and fabricating. What I and Lubeowner did on my truck is not a kit for sale and Jeremy was open with me about the unknowns for a daily driver. I still pulled the trigger and went ahead with the project. So far I have 2,200 miles with the dual pumps and everything is working well. Mike ( KEM performance) tune is working perfect, best tune I have ever ran!
 
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