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PHP's 2001 F-250 Build. Finally!

49K views 234 replies 89 participants last post by  TARM 
#1 ·
I've spent so much time over the last 13 years helping to build and tune everyone else's truck, I figure it's probably time for me to get off my butt and put the screws ours. The build process on this truck is going to be a slow, methodical one as I want to quantify and qualify every modification we make as well as come to a determination as to what would be the best order in which to perform the modifications. Hopefully this will provide some very useful information to folks who are considering some modifications and are just not sure where to start. So, let's begin...

The Platform:

The truck we're building is a 2001 F-250, 2 WD, Single Cab Longbed. The truck had 234,000 miles when it was purchased and it currently has 241,00 miles. The only modification on the truck when we purchased it was a Homemade Tymar/6637 filter kit. Other than that, the truck was completely stock. The engine, turbo, HPOP and injectors are all original, and to the best of my knowledge the engine has newer been apart. A new transmission was installed at about 140,000. Incidentals such as water pump, hoses, alternator, or other minor things I'm sure have been replaces as needed, but have no bearing on this project so I'm not worried about them.

The Goal:

The goal is to see what gains are realized from different modifications, what order would be the most logical to perform them, and ultimately how much RELIABLE, STREETABLE power we can squeeze out of an average, reasonably high mileage vehicle before we experience any significant failure (ie. head gaskets, cracked pistons, or even a *GASP* windowed block). Each level of the build will be dynoed, datalogged, and documented and all information will be publicly available for reference and scrutiny. It is my hope to push 600+ streetable HP and do it for less than $7,500.

The Parts (Initially...):
  • Injectors: Ryan Casserly and the rest of the guys at Full Force Diesel will be handling all the injector builds in each stage of the process. It is our plan to start with Stage 1 Singles (160cc/30%), graduate to Stage 2 Singles (160cc/100%), and then settle in on Stage 3 Singles (300cc/200%).
  • Turbocharger: Bob Riley at DieselSite will be helping to handle turbo upgrades, from a minor upgrade to a WickedWheel replacement compressor wheel all the way up to a full turbo upgrade when we are ready. Possible choices are GT38 and GT42, but others may be considered in the meantime. Since compounds or parallel twins will undoubtedly put us over budget, we won't consider them unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
  • HPOP: DieselSite will again be our choice for all the High Pressure Oil needs. The Adrenaline will be our first stop, and then either a Pulse or OverDrive setup as our demands increase.
  • Exhaust: John Anderson at Little Power Shop has already provided us with a full Diamond Eye 4" Exhaust kit, though it hasn't yet been installed. We will be going with a standard Single Out setup due to the fact that our truck has a full top on it and stacks will not be able to be installed.
The Process:

We will first set a baseline for the truck with Dyno charts and Datalogs. The dyno we're using is a Mustang Dyno Eddy Current load dyno and we will be simulating loads of 7,000 Lbs. (approx. weight of vehicle alone) and 15,000 Lbs. (approx. weight of vehicle with an additional 8,000 Lb. load). We will monitor all pertinents such as MAP, EBP, EOT, EGT, ICP, IPR, SOI, and anything else we feel would be useful. All runs will be made at a stabilized operating temperature (minimum 165ºF for EOT) in order to help maintain data consistency.

All parts will be installed, tuned (if necessary) and tested. When we are comfortable with the configuration, we will then retest and datalog the vehicle. All subsequent performance tests will record the same parameters in the same fashion as the baseline tests. Once we feel we've exhausted the configuration, we'll move on to the next modification. If at any time we should find a deficiency in a particular system, we will resolve that issue before moving forward. For example, if there is a deficiency with the high pressure oil system, we will resolve that issue before moving up to a larger injector. If airflow becomes too big of an issue, then the turbocharger will be addressed.

The central idea is to consider how to possibly build in stages that make the most sense, both from a performance standpoint and a financial standpoint. I've considered the idea of simply installing a 300/200 injector and just detuning it for street use as this would give a person considerable headroom to "build into" down the road as time and finances permit. However, I can still detuned the setup at the end of this exercise and I feel that more usable data can be had by slowly building up with different stage injectors.

Anyway, the project (which technically has already started) officially starts today (11/14/2010) and goes until I top 600 HP or I pop the engine. I know there are a number of gamblers out there, so feel free to pick which you think will come first... Top or Pop. Keep in mind that this is a 240K mile engine and I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what condition it's in, so don't get all excited if it lets go at 575, 500, or even 450 HP. That's just the way it goes.

The Rules:

I ask that we please keep this thread clear of debris and not take up space with "Hey... what's the status?" or "Did you break it yet?" questions. I'll be happy to respond to legitimate questions about the testing process, the parts used, or the POSTED results. Anything else will pretty much be ignored.

All parts used will be, or have been, purchased. I am not expecting any handouts and I will keep track of all purchases to not only see if I'm able to meet my goal of 600 HP for $7,500, but also how much each modification costs and how much power can be made for the current amount invested.

I have no plan to incorporate Nitrous, Propane, or Methanol into this project, although I will be considering Water injection only as an exhaust temperature stabilizer. However, I'd rather avoid such consumables if at all possible.

In the event of any significant failure, the test will conclude and all final results will be posted. I have another block to work with, but that will be used for a much more serious build and would not fit the parameters of this test.

I think that's pretty much it. From here on out, I'll post up Dyno Sheets and Datalogs as time permits.

Stay Tuned... :D
 
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#3 ·
Subscribing...
 
#4 ·
:popcorn:
 
#6 ·
So, are you going to be making all of the first modifications off of the stock truck? For example, throw in stage 1 injectors, all else being stock, test them, then take them out and make another modification such as an hpop with everything else stock? It seems like the only logical way to test the true gains of these components and be able to retrieve usable data for peopel potentially wanting to modify. I understand it would be a pain to do this throughout the build, but I would at least entertain the idea for the first round of mods.
 
#14 ·
Got a fitting I can borrow for my gauge? :eek:

So, are you going to be making all of the first modifications off of the stock truck? For example, throw in stage 1 injectors, all else being stock, test them, then take them out and make another modification such as an hpop with everything else stock? It seems like the only logical way to test the true gains of these components and be able to retrieve usable data for peopel potentially wanting to modify. I understand it would be a pain to do this throughout the build, but I would at least entertain the idea for the first round of mods.
The idea is to follow the logical steps. I've already done testing on a modified HPOP by itself last year so I don't think I'll specifically do that. The plan is to build up and if one area becomes deficient, then that's the next logical step. For instance, most trucks will run Stage 1's without any issue from the stock HPOP, but some trucks won't. If, while running Stage 1's, I see a need for updating the HPOP then that's what'll get replaced next. Not that I'm averse to R&R on components for testing, I'm just not sure if there is any significant knowledge to be gained from replacing a component that hasn't shown any deficiency. However, if there is significant interest in testing of specific components or systems, I'll be happy to consider it.

Take care.
 
#11 ·
Awesome idea Bill. PM me if you need the thread cleaned up. I will be glad to help on that end. Wish I was close enough to help on the wrenching end. Seems like a fun project.
 
#13 ·
This is going to be pretty cool!
 
#17 ·
so Bill, i assume the $7500 budget, is per the total goal....meaning the 3 jumps in injectors will likely put at or very close to that $7500.

so the, hopefully, 600+ hp can be obtained in one step for $7500(final out come) correct?

i hope my question makes sense.
 
#22 ·
I think 600 on fuel with a completely stock motor is gonna be a hard thing to do without some longevity upgrades.

Studs, pushrods, and springs are a must...

And a transmission to hold it all will eat up most of a $7500 dollar budget.

The tranny will be the big ticket item.
Lets see...
Injectors-- $1800- $ 2300 which can be re-sold if trading up to bigger so lets say $3000 tops, after some losses to resale.

BTS-- $4200
Springs- $100
HPOP- probably around $1500
tuning--free since he does his own stuff.
Turbo--$1000- $2000 depending on new or used and which one.

$middle of the road price here--
$2,000 injectors
$4,200 BTS
$100 Springs
$1,200 HPOP
$1,500 Turbo=
+/- $9,000
Oh yeah head studs. $600- $700
$9,700

Middle of the road prices there, so , save a little here and there, it can most likely be done. If the HPOP holds decent pressure maybe it wont need r&r. Hmm maybe Riley's OD unitinstead of a pump?

Interesting build up. Be nice to see the actual numbers, results of each change
step by step documented. Instead of a complete buildup all at once.
:rockon:
 
#24 ·
I doubt Bill is considering 600 without studs, but if it were possible (and I don't think it is) he'd be the guy. FWIW, I paid 440ish for a brand new in the box set of 4201's plus the APR-ultra torque stuff last month, the deals are out there. Just gotta keep an eye out.
 
#25 ·
The injectors will start at Stage 1 and then be upgraded through Stage 3, so that will save considerably on costs. I'm figuring a total in the area of $2,750 to $3,000 for a final set of 300/200's. As for incidentals such as valve springs, I'll be considering those as well. The main goal is to not open the engine for any reason, aside from whatever can be done under the valve covers. This obviously excludes studs, fire rings, cometic gaskets, block fill, girdles, or any other intrusive modifications. If the gaskets blow, the test is done... At least for this experiment. I may decide to continue the build, and try to stay within budget, but that is outside of the parameters of this particular test.

Oil is going to be addressed eventually. I'm working with Bob to determine if the OverDrive is going to meet my needs. This is the direction I have been leaning to up the HPOP volume as I liked the results I saw when I tested it last year. Of course, the turbo will be a necessity at some point, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Longevity is definitely going to be a concern. As I stated in the beginning, the idea is to have streetable power. You have to keep in mind that 600 HP only occurs at full throttle and it only takes maybe 50 HP to push a vehicle along at 60 MPH, so there's not a concern that a 600 HP capable engine will hold together. The question is, how LONG will it hold together and under what driving conditions. Anyone who knows me, knows that I drive it like I stole it 100% of the time. I love acceleration and the feeling of getting pushed back in the seat. I'm sure that if it can hold up under my driving style, it would hold up to anyone else's. In fact, if the goal is achieved, I'd invite anyone who is interested to come and drive it.

The only other real concern I have is the transmission and I have come to the decision that it doesn't really play into the parameters of the build. A failed transmission will most likely be a reality when dealing with 500+ HP, but it's really not the issue. Transmissions frequently fail at much lower power levels than what we're looking to achieve and if I have to replace it, then so be it. I don't think that expenditure should be considered as part of the engine budget. The real point is whether a fully stock block can hold together. But hey... It's just a motor, right? Either it breaks or it doesn't. :D

I think the next couple months are going to be quite interesting.
 
#26 ·
I feel like studs are one of those things that need to be done. Blowing a headgasket unstudded doesn't really prove anything... Especially on stock head bolts.

IMO, studs, springs, and pushrods should be on every motor over 500 hp. On the other hand, if you're just trying to show off, that's another thing in itself. :D
 
#28 ·
Really, it's not about showing off and I agree with you that in the long run it would be smart money to invest it studs and other assorted top end goodies. The question is, CAN it be done without it? Maybe... Maybe not. More importantly, I think the information we derive will help set some realistic limits on what is capable for a completely stock engine. Stage 1's, Stage 2's, 35 PSI, 45 PSI, 3500 RPM, 4200 RPM... When will it fail, and what will fail? If Stage 2's hold together but Stage 3's pop the gaskets, we may find that to be a reasonable stopping point. If stage 3's at 500 HP hold together but 550 HP fails, again we have some set some reasonable limitations. It's all about gaining knowledge and I'm perfectly happy to take a chance on sacrificing our engine so that others may learn something.

The biggest advantages I have over the average person are a load dyno, extremely fast datalogging equipment, the ability to do my own tuning, years of experience, and a LOT of patience. This is not a weekend, 15 day, or even month long project. This will take the better part of the winter and should God smile upon us and hold our little clunker of an engine together, we expect to be done in February or March. Look at Mike O. He spent a year tuning his truck in little bitty steps and look at where he's at now! Patience makes all the difference.
 
#30 ·
Yeh studs are not excluded by not cracking the engine open. I woudl say 99% of those adding studs do the "pull one and replace" method. No need to crack the seal on the heads to do it.

ARPs being lower cost will add a margin of safety. It woudl suck to have everything working just fine and have this experiment come to a end for a blown head gasket. Same goes for the valve springs.
 
#41 ·
When it comes to a point where I feel the stocker is affecting output, it will be upgraded. Like you, I'm curious what we can achieve with the stock system.

Hey Bill,

How open would you be to requests??

Such as...

I'd like to see your dyno results from tuned stockers or stage 1's. Both in hp and back pressure, with the wastegate hooked up on the stock turbo in stock config, then with no line on the actuator, then with full boost pressure on the actuator...
Definitely open to request like that. We will be upgrading to a 4 or 5 bar MAP so that the OBD boost data will be valid in the datalogs. I'll have to see what approach we can do for those.

if the purpose of the experiment is to see what it will do with various builds, isnt anything over a stage 1 injector build generally gonna have studs? 95% of ppl will put them in, one atta time, so to be realistic this should have them to? or is the idea to see what it can do without supporting mods and draw conclusions from there. just trying to understand a little better.
I disagree. I can't even begin to tell you how many customer we've tuned for that have installed Stage 2 (or even larger) injectors and still have not done head studs.

Given the feedback from several members, I may consider doing studs "one at a time" but I'm actually quite curious as to just how much the stock bolts will hold so I don't know yet. It may come down to suggesting that nothing over Stage 1 injectors or maybe nothing over 450 HP should be run without head studs.

I would be much more interested to see how 300/200 tuner down and tuned accordingly will do with the stock turbo.
I've actually tested a set of 350/400 injectors and I'll tell you, it was an amazing ride. Jim at Rosewood Diesel loaned us a set of injectors to play with and we were able to tune them down enough to allow everything to survive. We never did get to play with them like we'd expected as we ran into some minor issues and while there wasn't anything wrong with the injectors themselves, we had to pull them out.

I do still have some datalog data from those runs somewhere and if your interested I can get some over to you.
 
#35 ·
Hey Bill,

How open would you be to requests??

Such as...

I'd like to see your dyno results from tuned stockers or stage 1's. Both in hp and back pressure, with the wastegate hooked up on the stock turbo in stock config, then with no line on the actuator, then with full boost pressure on the actuator...
 
#37 ·
if the purpose of the experiment is to see what it will do with various builds, isnt anything over a stage 1 injector build generally gonna have studs? 95% of ppl will put them in, one atta time, so to be realistic this should have them to? or is the idea to see what it can do without supporting mods and draw conclusions from there. just trying to understand a little better.
 
#38 ·
I would be much more interested to see how 300/200 tuner down and tuned accordingly will do with the stock turbo.
 
#39 ·
I would be much more interested to see how 300/200 tuner down and tuned accordingly will do with the stock turbo.

hahaha, well, I know that 238/80 dont like stock turbo if the throttle foot is happy! haha Like less than a week to have terminal noises, and major oil leakage.
 
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