This is a continuation of the first thread that got over run with discussions about damping/barrier materials and audio cables ! Please start your own thread for those discussions.
Current status.
I'm mostly done the front air ride suspension and cab air ride projects. I'm now back working on soundproofing my Superduty.
Right now I have one door skin soundproofed and one front door speaker mounted.
The interior of my truck is totally stripped because I needed to do so in order to get at the cab mounting bolts for the cab air ride project.
I have a decision to make. The floor and back wall are covered with a foam/lead/foam composite mat.
Should I lift it all up and put limp mass on all the surface and lay it back down or just use the limp mass or leave it as is ? The lead is 1 pound/ft^2 and it seems to work pretty well.
Nobody has an opinion about lifting the composite and/or just running some limp mass in its place ? It would be a lot of work to lift it, but on the other hand, the entire interior of my cab is stripped, so now is the time to do it.
Why does our opinions matter?
You're not gonna listen, imply we don't know what we're talking about and do what you want with it anyway.
Good luck with it...I could care less.
If by listen do you mean "Am I going to do what you tell me to do ?" Probably not.
If by listen you mean that I read what you write, think about it, research it and use it in my decision, then I always listen. That is the purpose of these forums.
Someone is a little sore that I used Roxsul and Resisto instead of "listening" to his advice. Too bad.
If I "listened" to what people told me, I wouldn't have one of the first 3rd gen Cummins in my truck, nor air ride on the front axle, rear axle and cab either. So be it.
My point exactly. You'll take the advice of a pics of sales literature over the advice of someone with two decades of working experience with the product. Why in the world would I waste more time with my opinion on your project?
You don't want opinions...you want props for your project....nothing more.
I find humor in your comment about a CR in a Ford. You act like you're the only one that's done it. LOL
Good luck with your project...jut don't get butt hurt when people don't jump in to help or give advice. You burned that bridge in your last thread.
I did mine in July of 2005. Very few, if any, were done at that time. I machined my own adapter plate because I didn't want to put a 2" spacer on my flywheel. I built my own throttle control circuit. Everyone told me all those things were impossible to do.
People think if you can't buy it from some magical vendor, its impossible to do. This stuff is pretty straightforward.
When did you do your conversion ?
It really bugs you that I took a different approach to my soundproofing project.
I am not looking for props. I'm looking for ideas. And when I ask questions like that, I usually get lots of them. Its great. These forums are excellent.
Mine was done in 08ish. No adaptor plates needed...Dodge 48RE eliminated that issue. No weird throttle stuff needed either. Stock Dodge throttle cable hooks right up to factory Ford adjustable pedals.
Your acting like this is a hard conversion. Once the motor is in it takes all of 3 wires to fire and run and one keyed 12v signal to the TCM and you're done minus gauges.
It doesn't bug me at all that you took a different approach. I used some products from my shop when I did mine. Things that aren't the norm in sound proofing a car BUT...these are just higher spec products than most people use. NOT the wrong product. Don't say you weren't warned when the bottom of your doors rot out a few years from now.
You must have a pre 04.5 engine. Mine is a late 05 engine (325/610 with the updated injectors). Your engine has a cable operated throttle position sensor on the engine. They changed the throttle interface on the later engines whereby the electronics are in the cab, not on the engine. I had 2 options... mount a Dodge accelerator in my truck OR build a circuit. I built a circuit. It does more than control the throttle too. Like I said, people said it couldn't be done. Luckily I didn't "listen".
Your acting like this is a hard conversion. Once the motor is in it takes all of 3 wires to fire and run and one keyed 12v signal to the TCM and you're done minus gauges.
On YOUR engine with your transmission, yes. I wanted a newer engine with the updated injectors. Its a whole different ball game.
Your engine has a fuel pump mounted on the engine from the factory. Mine didn't. I was the guy that invented the CP3 bypass system to control the fuel pressure. I was also the first guy to put a 10 micron filter under the air horn. Glacier Diesel now sells a kit based on my design ideas.
I could go on, but I'll stop there. There is a reason I don't "listen" to people.
I'm so glad you did it all first. Someone had to. I won't go into my list of firsts but there are several products on the market that were either prototyped on my truck or designed by me and now in production.
BTW, your updated injectors are just different nozzles to work with the inferior non re-entrant pistons used in 04.5 and up motors. There's a reason the 6.7 went back to re-entrant pistons. It is what it is...if you like it I love it.
Should we continue to see who can piss higher or do you wanna go work on quieting down your truck now?
BTW, your updated injectors are just different nozzles to work with the inferior non re-entrant pistons used in 04.5 and up motors. There's a reason the 6.7 went back to re-entrant pistons. It is what it is...if you like it I love it.
So be it. The early 05 engines had some injector trouble. I wanted to avoid that so I went with a late 05 engine. Thus the throttle electronics. I could care less about re entrant or not. I just wanted an engine that worked reliably. At the time it was the best I could get.
I'm going to the shop to survey what I am going to do with my cab floor.
Right now I have one door skin soundproofed and one front door speaker mounted.
I have a decision to make. The floor and back wall are covered with a foam/lead/foam composite mat.
Should I lift it all up and put limp mass on all the surface and lay it back down or just use the limp mass or leave it as is ? The lead is 1 pound/ft^2 and it seems to work pretty well.
You don't have a skin "soundproofed," although I am interested in your results. If you had understood or "listened" to anything I had said in the other thread, you would understand that the composite mat is a dampener - not a barrier. You would be stupid to remove the dampening without replacing with another dampener - UNDERNEATH your barrier material.
If by listen do you mean "Am I going to do what you tell me to do ?" Probably not.
If by listen you mean that I read what you write, think about it, research it and use it in my decision, then I always listen. That is the purpose of these forums.
Someone is a little sore that I used Roxsul and Resisto instead of "listening" to his advice. Too bad.
I don't care if you "listen" or not... It is clear to me that you have your opinions and will follow them - as is your perogative. The only reason I bother posting in your threads is to help everyone else who reads it. A "limp" mass barrier is not effective as a sole source of "soundproofing." You have to consider dampening as well as creating a barrier.
My point exactly. You'll take the advice of a pics of sales literature over the advice of someone with two decades of working experience with the product. Why in the world would I waste more time with my opinion on your project?
You don't want opinions...you want props for your project....nothing more.
Good luck with your project...jut don't get butt hurt when people don't jump in to help or give advice. You burned that bridge in your last thread.
Because ~400 people have viewed the two threads ~3,000 times. You might not be able to help this guy - but you might help someone from making his mistakes.
A steel panel is a barrier. When you add limp mass to that barrier, it creates a better barrier. It doesn't just dampen it. Its not just a damper.
Ford adds damping mass to the floor on our Superduties. It covers about 10% of the floor. Ford does not add a limp mass barrier. That is what I am doing.
I'm tired of discussing this stuff with you guys over and over. You don't understand the difference between a barrier, a damper and an absorber.
I haven't seen much discussion on your part... And I think if anyone isn't clear on what is what - it would be the guy asking if he should remove the dampener material to put down "limp" mass... But what the hell do I know
To everyone else - you should not remove the factory dampener UNLESS you are replacing it with a better dampener. Your barrier material would go over the dampener.
Just so people know that basics...
Dampener, ie vibration dampener....your Dynamat type products
Absorber...closed cell foam type products...Ensolite, Armaflex, etc
Barrier....mass loaded vinyl (MLV) and similar products.
Fibrous insulation can fit in the absorber category...just don't use stuff that will wick water in your doors like someone else in this thread has both done and promoted as a viable alternative.
I am simply replying for the benefit of others to help them to understand the benefit of sound deadening and trying to stay out of the pissing match, though I have learned a lot from each of you.
I recently added a product from the local home improvement store that is similar to the Dynamat type products to each of my 4 doors inner and outer skins. I also "sealed" the doors by adding panels to the large holes. WOW! I was amazed at how much better my Infinity components sounded. I can not tell how much quieter it is as I now have the music up to enjoy the increase in bass and mid-bass response. My speakers sound SO much better now.
I will say that I do not hear/feel rattles and sounds that I actually anticipate when hitting small bumps.
Yes, I went the "cheap" way out, but I am amazed so far at the results. I have a road trip this weekend and look forward to the results.
I had previously upgraded to an aftermarket tuner and was actually not happy with the sound from my speakers with the increased power. But now am really impressed.
so since i am new here as well,im i understanding this correct,or maybe im just goofed up on pain meds,but --so leave the metal looking stuff and dyna mat over it? ive been looking at some stuff caled lizard skin? kinda looks like a bedliner,my carpet has two big squares cut out of it about a foot square one in each front floor board,not sure what they were trying to get to? ive thought about pulling the carpet and spraying this lizard skin, and calling it good,womndering about any wires under the carpet though! is this a bad idea, do i need the aluminum foil looking stuff,
oh and by the way i kinda agree with the other guy "smokin black" me2 is kinda being a ass, why ask for help then treat every one like ####,kinda childish bull####,huh? not trying to pick a fight,hell its not my fight,i just love this forum and appreciate all the fine help ive recieved and value everyones opioin, rather i agree or not, always give me fresh look on my ideas, thanks guys keep on keeping on... real people are a dyeing breed,
The metal looking composite stuff is a factory vibration dampener. You should not remove that unless you are going to replace it with a better vibration dampener. Dynamat is really a cross between a vibration dampener and a mass layer barrier. Based on a market decision, dynamat made sacrifices in both vibration dampening and mass. It is a good compromise and effective - if over priced. If you are putting down dynamat or it's equivalent, leave the factory dampener in place. Removing it will not help anything.
I don't know the difference between a dampener and an absorber, really not that interested. I do think my superduty is loud so I follow these threads to see whether the goals of quieting the truck have been accomplished and how. Very selfish but if I wanted to learn about the physics then I would go to an acoustics forum.
I'll post details of what I do and how it works if other people promise to stay out of the thread.
I'm not interested in debating a bunch of stuff. I've made up my mind about materials and rightly or wrongly I am going to test them. If it doesn't work out, I'll let the forum know.
If you guys want to debate materials, do it in your own thread.
I tackled the cab corners and mounted some speakers today.
First I stuffed the outer part of the C pillar with Roxsul as much as I could.
Then I layered on 3 layers of Resisto to the inside of the pillar, as much as I could.
Then I stuffed the main cavity with as much Roxsul as I could.
Then I mounted the speaker.
I've been driving this truck with a stripped interior all winter. The difference in the noise level due to the work on cab corners is amazing. I could hardly believe it. A lot of the rear cab noise must come through the rear pillars. Its way quieter now.
I always read the dampening threads to see what others have done and what I can learn to make mine better. This one has turned into a complete clusterf*ck. All I've learned here is that the OP doesn't listen and knows more than all of us combined and is happy to tell us so we can pat him on the back and tell him how great he is. Wait till he finds out the King has no clothes on.
This time it's wrong.
Vibration dampener(Dynamat or similar), Mass loaved vinyl and Ensolite(closed cell foam) with some expanding foam in the cavities is the right way to do it.
Why not just use sound dentenor, it comes in a spray bottle and is like a hard rubber when it dries.. Works pretty good too, used it on a friends old ranger.
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