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strongest ford auto tranny?

6K views 39 replies 17 participants last post by  Mark Kovalsky 
#1 ·
I am currently in the process of swaping a 12v cummins into my 2000 excursion. the ex has the 5.4 gas witht he stock 4r100. i am wandering what kind of power will the different stock autos handle? will the stock diesel version of the 4r100 handle say 400rwhp out of a 12v? towing heavy? how bout a stock 5r110? are you folks out there with stewed up 6.0s keeping your trannys stock? or are yall beefin them up to hold the power? i havent heard of a lot of folks with tranny issues with the 5r110 but then again i dont know.
Thank you
 
#3 ·
The torque shifts are strong
 
#4 ·
what needs to be done to make a 4r100 live in a 400rwhp 2wd excursion thats going to be towing pretty heavy? just a convertor and vb? or stock stuff good enough? I find stock low mileage 5r110s for under 1000 dollars, the adapters and electronics to control the two different trannys cost the same so i would think i should go with the stronger one. Im buyin my stuff from fordcummins.com, its gonna end up costing me the same amount of money no matter what tranny i go with.
 
#5 ·
check the planetaries in the 4r because the ones they put behind the 5.4 had 4 pin planetaries and the v10 and diesel had 6 pin planetaries. I have ran into that before. If you take care of that and put new clutches in and use a PI converter and a BTS or Wood valve body you shouldn't have any trouble.
 
#6 ·
ive heard the gearing is higher in my 5.4 4r100 in the tranny itself too. but thats just hearsay. I would like to be able to build my 4r100 i have now and make it strong, but the fact that the bell housing is different than diesel 4r100s would make it hard to sell if i ever needed to or if i wanted to do anything with it other than put it behind a 12v. Any ways does anyone know if there is any truth to the higher internal gearing in the 5.4 4r100? thanks yall
 
#8 ·
put a bts full built 4r100 in and never have to worry about it IMO
 
#12 ·
i would if it wernt for the 4500 or more bill...... If i dont need it i dont want to pay for it. Im building this to tow. it will be sittin behind a 12v cummins that wont ever make more than 400 rwhp. and most likley be around 320 to 350rwhp.
now i might see what he can do for me as far as building my 4r100 to hold the power but i deffinatly dont need a top of the line bullet proof tranny. Im not goin to be doing boosted launches, or sled pulling. Just good ole everyday driving and towing(less than 10,000lbs.) I would like to invest in a good converter and VB that i know will last.
 
#10 ·
some common rail converted trucks run them with a PCS controller, the problem lies in that with the person behind the PCS being able to tune the transmission correctly to make it last, behind a 6.4 550 hp they will live pretty long bone stock, but like i said in a conversion situation, the 5r probably isnt the best option.
 
#13 ·
Never have to buy another trany with a bts. Beans diesel has a 1000hp cummins in front of a bts 4r100 and has never had a problem. But prolly a good VB and converter wold hold 350hp.
 
#14 ·
oh yeah i know, and if i was building a high horse power truck it would deffinatley be getting a BTS full build. And i might someday, but just not for this 2wd excursion. If it were a 4wd, and i planned on doing more than what i am with it then i would go ahead and invest in it. Now i am seriously concidering putting a full built BTS in my 97 ram behind my 12v. just cause id like to race it or sled pull it and with the power that truck is puttin out its just a matter of time before i grenade the 4500 thats in it.
 
#15 ·
I think either trans, 4r or 5r, will do what you want. If you can get the tuning done right then a 5r might be worth having just for the extra gear, but the 4r is probably simpler.

I'd say your best bet is to call up BTS and tell them what you plan on doing, they wont sell you more than you need and are always more than willing to talk. Brian helped me fix my trans over the phone several times, and i've never bought anything trans related from them!
 
#16 ·
thank you i am going to do that. I do thank all of you for the information.

Jay Buller
 
#18 ·
thank you,,,, i may have talked my wife into letting me put a 5 speed in it anyways..... hopefully, all my trucks have 5 speeds and i love it, better mpg, better reliabilty, and you are in control. Lets hope she lets me go through with it. id love to have a 12v 5speed excursion. That would be tits and one of a kind. I dont think they ever offered excursions in manual trannys at all. so that would be unique as well as the 12v factor. I think with a nv4500 i could squeeze 24 mpg out of it..... well with the right pizza cutter tires on it anyway...
 
#19 ·
Just curious, have you ever driven a nicely tuned 5r truck? Mine drove awesome and it was a stock trans with BTS tuning. It would downshift at the same places and times I would have with a manual most of the time and when you smash the pedal it just banged the gears out like theres no tomorrow!
 
#20 ·
never have..... its mostly a cost factor as well as reliability for me why i would choose the manual instead of the auto. The cost to do a auto is....700 for adapter plate, 500 for custom flywheel and about 900 for the pcs transcontroller. all that and i still have to buy a trans..... for the 5 speed i just have to buy a master cyl. and a clutch pedal. and build a drivshaft... ni already have the trans, clutch and all that stuff.
 
#22 ·
I have a stock 5r with ~70k miles sitting in the shop that I bought used and never put in. It supposedly ran great when I bought it. PM me if you're interested...and I could also have it taken to BTS as my hometown is only about 30mins from there.
 
#23 ·
not to derail your thread here, but how did or are you going to get the 4500 to work with the ford slave cyl? using a dodge one with ford pedals? im gathering stuff for a v10-12v conversion right now and am in the same prediciment. id love to use the trans thats in it, but after the plate, converter, tune, and other bs to just run the stock trans im lookin at $2500. where a manual is less money and more reliable imho.
 
#25 ·
derail away...hahah i still havent 100% decided to go with a 5 speed. but im leaning that way. I dont know wich clutch master or slave cyl. i will be using. i am thinking a ford clutch pedal with dodge cylinders. but i do not know if it will work or not, they look pretty darn close at the firewall. when you look at a f250 5 speed and then a dodge 5 speed truck.
 
#26 ·
at 400 hp you have a few options unless you go stick shift...then you just need a good clutch.

1.) cheapy route -you can prob get by with modding the tc and vb on the tranny you have . there is a nice triple clutch tc that was in the 7.3 perf section for cheap....325ish comes in a 4 stud version as well. add a woodds, bts or transgo tugger etc.

2. get a bts , cost more but will be solid.

3. go with a 6.0 tranny..stronger and will save you money in the long run by having an od far less fuel used...ok not far but some. they are also stronger then the 4r's

4. go with an allison ...pretty much same as 3 but with better stopping power. since your towing an allison, with its tow braking feature it may be nice, they seem to be pretty tough. not sure which models have extra gears etc..


if it was me i"d go cheappy route
you already have a tranny, the cummins swap is gona cost nuff' on its own. it is not a huge cost outlay.
if it breaks send it to bts you will be covered if you get silly modd'n it or need it stronger.
if you really want an od you can always add a gear vendors unit later.
 
#27 ·
3. go with a 6.0 tranny..stronger and will save you money in the long run by having an od far less fuel used...ok not far but some. they are also stronger then the 4r's
Still have yet to see one behind a 7.3L Powerstroke. Figure if you have $500-$1000 in a good solid stock 5r110 + $1000 in a good converter like a PI + $700-$1000 in an adapter plate + another $700-$1000 in a PCS controller & then still have to write your own files since no one has done it yet. So now we are somewhere around $3000-$4000+ for a 5R110 that is unproven behind a 7.3L. Doesn't seem like as much of a bargin anymore to me. :confused:
 
#28 ·
I was talking about saving mpg via the extra gear a 5r has.

But you raise a good point.
As initially I was thinking if you go from say 17mpg to 22mpg you save 5mpg...over 10k that would be a lot.. then I figure your not dealing with 5mp but the diff between burning say 454 gal vs 580 something I forget the actual number..but call it450$ just to use a number.

However a stock 6.0 will hold 400 ponies fine no super converter needed ,
The adapter plate would be needed for either ford tranny. So that is moot.

The big question is what mpg would you get. potentially you could do great.
.....but it does have to work.
Hopefully someone has tested a break out box for the 6.0 maybe one of the big boys has played with that.
 
#30 ·
12v + stock 4r100 ...4700
12v + stock 5r110.....4700
12v + bts 4r100.......7600
12v + nv4500 + clutch...2650


That's a breakdown of Wat it will cost to do each combo. I'm thinking nv4500 or 5r110, for my low HP cummins, plus mph gains with those trannys.
 
#33 ·
Well pooh...I get the dumbazz here's you sign award....
I always thought it had a lower od...never owned one.
don't bother with the 5r.
How bout the allison does it have a better od ratio?
Or is the gv the only way to drop it down.
Being that it would tak years to pay for itself.

Not that it matters I think he went with a nv4500
 
#34 ·
OD ratio diffrences on any of the listed trannys is too small to notice. If RPMs are an issue you will have to consider one of three things, tire height, gears, double over drive. Those are the only 3 things that will make a noticeable change to RPMs in OD.
 
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