2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it? - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum


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  #1  
Old 08-02-2010, 11:30 PM
rduran
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2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

I have an 2004 F-250 6.0L with 4x4. The on-going random starting problem that I am having is: does not want to start on occasion. When it does this, it will crank over but does not start. I can start it every time with Starter Fluid (only use when stranded and really desperate), but starts rough with starter fluid. Once the truck has been running, I can cut it off and it will start right up. If it sits for say 20 to 60min after being at normal operating temp, it may not start back up. Some mornings it will start right up, others don't know if it will start on its own. Comes and goes. Can go weeks without it re-occurring. Back in April had EGR delete kit installed and oil cooler was changed out then, and oil changed. This seemed to resolve my no start issue. Now its been almost 2 trouble-free months with roughly 2,000miles since oil change and new oil cooler and the no-start issue started again. In the past week it has not started on 5 occasions. Had to use starter fluid on three occasions. Eventually started on its own on 2 occasions, after multiple cranking and then waiting and cranking again then waiting. Probably had 8 to 10 no problem starts in that same week. So in one week: 3-no starts, 2-multi-crank starts, and 8to10-no problem starting.

I have seen posts on checking the voltage on the FICM. Its the 4-prong FICM. Voltage checked out to the required volts that Swamp specifies. Tested both when it would not start and when it would start. Called Swamp Diesel shop and they agreed that its most likely not the FICM. Thanks to their honest advice, I did not send it in for re-building.

I have seen the posts on wire harness coverings and chamfers. I inspected my wires and I do not see any obvious unprotected or damaged wiring. I have the late-2004 6.0L. It does appear to have the harness coverings that were added. But, I know its not easy to find that one damaged wire.

I have seen posts on the HPOP issue. My oil pressure gauge typically reads zero when initially cranking then jumps to normal (slightly above middle) when cranking and about to start. When it does not start, I can eventually see it jump to normal and yet it still does not start. My understanding is that the HPOP and STC-Snap-to-Connect or O-ring issues is typically for 05s and later. And the HPOP symptoms are for no start when hot and start or rough start when cold. Which do not seem specific to my issue and year truck.

I have seen the ICP sensor and IPR/IPC Valve posts. I do not have any codes nor CEL on. The ICP symptoms seem to be rough idle in park or drive and some start but then stall issues. I do not have a noticeable rough idle and I have not had the engine stall on me. Once it starts it stays running. So I do not think this is related.

Before the EGR delete, I installed a new alternator and two new interstate batteries. I think I drained the batteries from so many cranking attempts to start the engine. Replaced the batteries only to later find out the alternator was dead too. I continue to measure voltage on batteries and with alternator running. I do not think I have a battery/alternator issue.


One time I was stranded and the nearby kwik lube shop kept the truck over night and they were able to get it started after replacing fuel filters and bleeding the fuel line. Not their normal scope of services; but, they were helping me out since I was stranded. It ran great for several weeks after that then the no-start appeared again. I am not sure how they bled the fuel line. I understood that the fuel line was self bleeding. Is there a way to manully bleed the fuel line? I have tried turning the key on and off in an attempt to bled the line but not sure if that is really helping.

When the EGR delete was installed the shop did look into the no start issue. They checked glow plugs and fuel injectors, with scan tool I believe. They said all was good and they never had a no start problem while it was there. I was told that the oil cooler change out may have addressed my no start issue. I thought it did for the last two months, until now.

Some people with no-start issues complain about their truck running rough when cold. I would not say that my truck runs rough when still cold (after starting and below normal operating temp) but rather, it seems to have limited power or slow to pick up speed. Once running at normal operating temp it feels fine/normal.

Here's a summary of my symptoms:
Cranks, but no start on occasion.
Can always start with starter fluid, rough but starts.
Once started can turn off and restart without issue.
If sits for 20min or longer but still hot, may or may not start.
If sits overnight, may or may not start.
No starting issue can go away for weeks and months, then re-appears.

So my main question is: What can I try now? Do I need to go back and double check something? What is the most common culprit for a late-2004 6.0L? What can I rule out (above) for a late-2004 6.0L? Is there any alternative to the starter fluid that would be safer? Can this be a fuel issue? Good diesel = trouble free weeks/ Bad diesel = trouble starting? Can this be an oil issue? Should I change the oil again? Is there some after market gadget that would let me start my truck, bypassing the PCM or ICP?
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2010, 12:24 AM
id: 5520
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Re: 2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

Great information.. What oil are you useing? Sounds electical to me. I would be very surprized if your problem doesn't have something to do with your FICM or a cable/connector going to it.. I know you said the 48 volts were there when you checked at no start and start but If it were me, I wouldn't rule out a FICM issue, The board may be okay but there very well could be a bad connector or wire going to it..

Could also be fuel related. Your fuel pump could be failing.. IDK, just a couple of things I would be checking into in depth if it where me.. Hope this helps..
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:33 AM
pwstroke199
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Re: 2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

check fuel psi.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2010, 12:36 AM
irontx25
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Re: 2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

Need to scan it during a no start situation. Probably not what your looking for. I would data log all ficm related, icp,ipr,(psi and volts) and fuel pump duty cycle. Just to start with. Sure sounds electrical though.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:29 PM
rduran
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Re: 2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

Thanks for the replies! I am running MotorCraft 15W-40. I added one more quart just in case I did have a leak somewhere. So far it had been starting within the 1st or 2nd crank. Not sure if it is related.

I recently came acroos this link:

Diesel Technician Society

Thinking others may find it helpful. It has ford diesel engine manuals for specific years. For a 2004 6.0L, the no-start diag section suggestions any of the following could prevent the PCm from firing injectors: FICM, ICP, CKP, CMP. However without a scanner, its difficult to narrow down. The most I would be able to do is to inspect each sensor and may be discconnect and clean those that I can get to easily. Any suggestions?

I am thinking that if its the CMP I should have a CEL, which I do not. If its the ICP, I would have hesitation or idle issues, which I do not. FICM seems to be in check. Can it be the CKP? Book/manual states its typically the CKP if no RPM signal during cranking. Is there something I need to listen for to know whether I am getting RPMs during crnaking? It turns over but no firing? Is this no RPMs?

I have a CEL scanner but sound like I need a full scanner with a live feed. AutoEnginuity seems to be the most popular. Is there any others I should be looking into, any with more bang for your buck? Would I need to get the Ford enhancer, if I go with AutoEnginuity?
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2014, 03:07 PM
Johnvalenti01
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Re: 2004 F250 6.0L - No Start again, not FICM nor HPOP, or is it?

I know this is an old forum but can anybody tell me if they found the problem to rduran problem. Sorry I'm new to this site. Thanks
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