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Which is more efficient? Air to air, or air to water?

3K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  Mercracing 
#1 ·
So I was looking at a couple pulling trucks, as it looked like they were using air to water only, w no air to air. I can see how chilled water would be great in a pullin/ drag truck, because you are just running down the track, and could cool the water down between runs. Im just wondering if air to water would be more efficient than air to air on a daily driver/ tow truck. I think you'd need to run the water through a rad to pull some heat out after the air to water IC.
I have seen air to water on the first stage and air to air on the second for twins, but I'm curious about it for a single.

Thoughts and ideas?


Sean
 
#2 ·
Sean, I would look into these type of kits for some ideas: FrozenBoost

Efficiency versus an ATA would depend on alot of things, but I have a friend who is looking to put the 600HP kit on his OBS, I'm working on ideas right now on where to mount the cooler at.

Dave
 
#3 ·
Air to water is more efficient but a pain to fill with Ice tanks and pumps. But if coolest intake charge for horsepower/torque is desired .... you must go Air to WATER.

For a daily driver its easier for air to air , there are a couple of companies that make refridgerated air to water coolers but they are BIG and expensive.
 
#4 ·
Air to water is more efficient but a pain to fill with Ice tanks and pumps. But if coolest intake charge for horsepower/torque is desired .... you must go Air to WATER.

For a daily driver its easier for air to air , there are a couple of companies that make refridgerated air to water coolers but they are BIG and expensive.
No need to go with refrigerated. Just make sure everything is salt compatible and run iced salt water. You won't need colder water than that...

Sam
 
#6 ·
Air to water is the more effective system but it can only work at that level for a short time. I use a system of this type on my supercharged drag car. The supercharger puts out 300* air on a 90+* day @ 31-33 psi, with a full load (50lbs) of ice the engine sees 60-70* air. Unfortunately one burn out and 1/4 mile pass leaves you with some nice cold water, no ice. Like you thought air to air is a more effective system on the street provided that it intercooler is correctly sized. I know Ford used/uses the air to water type system on the 03-04 Cobras, 99-up SVT/Harley trucks, GT super car, and the current GT500 Mustangs. The systems do work but they are complicated and expensive to make work when you turn those cars/trucks up.
 
#7 ·
The only way I could see an air to water system working, is by using a radiator between the cooler and the tank, but after a while, it seems like the temps would still get too hot.

Has anybody actually run one on the street?
 
#8 ·
Ive seen the refrigerated units runing on the street , but not a air cooled air to water intercooler. I cant see them as being very efficient , eventually on a long drive the intake charge will get to the same temps as a air to air .... just not worth the hassle IMO.
 
#9 ·
Like I said some OE's have used air to water. They basically are a second small cooling system complete with a radiator (heat exchanger), coolant resevor, pump, intercooler (like a heater core). These systems come with anti-freeze which isn't as efficient as water at ejecting heat, so what usually happens after getting on the vehical hard a few times the system heat soaks and you're inlet temps go through the roof. A race type air to water intercooler is even worse for street use since they don't use anything to exchange heat from the system. In hot weather like we are having now a full load of ice will be warm to hot water in probably 20 minutes of driving around. That's the big advantage of air/air systems, as long as there is good airflow accross the core and it is sized properly it will give a decent and consistent performance. I will post so pictures when I get home of how my car is done.
 
#12 ·
I will post so pictures when I get home of how my car is done.
I actually use a procharger intercooler on my turbo mustang , im sure our set ups are similar.

I had actually toyed with the idea of putting both types on my mustang , use the ice tank and pump when i hit the track and keep the pump off and use the air to air when i cruise around town. Other then room it would be fairly simple ... turbo doesnt care how much tubing you use and introduction of another intercooler would be minimal length difference. Running 2 intercoolers would take up some room but other then that it would be an awesome set up if you have a street/strip car.
 
#10 ·






the pictures really aren't that great but I think you get the idea. In the first picture the tank on the left is for the I/C and has the trans cooler mounted in the bottom of it. The taller item that is mounted further forward is the I/C itself. Another drawback for using a system like this on the street is the overall size/weight of the pieces involved The pump is not shown in the picture, it is to the left mounted the floor.
 
#11 ·
Obviously none of you looked at the link I put up, the kits run a radiator not an ice tank, though you can add an ice tank.

As far as an ATW not being suitable for the street, Ford must not think it's an issue, as the 6.7 PSD runs an ATW only, and there are several models of large truck engines that run ATW coolers utilizing the cooling system to remove heat from the cooler.

Dave
 
#13 ·
Smoky we are talking efficiency here. I looked at your link , and EVERY and i mean EVERY air to water will indeed become heat soaked. Without the refrigeration or ice it will become heat soaked and then you have nothing more then a air to air intercooler. Look at some of the testing on the cobras they were not efficient , several guys threw them away and went to a much more efficient air to air ... not everything ford does is smart ... look at the 6.0... they do what is cheapest and will fit there marketing strategy.
 
#15 ·
No they wernt for 1990-93 technology and opposed to a N/A 4.3. But we have diesels faster then that now .... do you remember what the diesels were runinng back in 90-93? Technologies have changed .... You could learn alot from the drag racing turbo guys , they have done the studies and tests. You have ball bearing turbos , ceramic coated housings , ported housings , different ratio exhaust housings , turbo timers , external wastegates , different style intercoolers .... all courtesy of the racing industry , definatley not big trucks or mass produced consumer trucks. Everything has been tested its not opinions ... the information is out there , you just have to find it.
 
#17 ·
water to air will be more effective removing heat from the charge air, you would have to have a radiator to remove the heat from the water. Joey is running it on his truck and I thought hotstik has it on his too. I have been wanting to do it on mine but there are too many projects going right now. Like said it is more parts to deal with but I think it will be worth the extra trouble. I would not do a refrigerated system, I dont think the loss in driving the compressor would make up for the cooler temps.

I was going to get my stuff from frozenboost.com, run the bosch pump and Liquid to Air this cooler or the one like this but a little smaller, and the the largest radiator/ heat exchanger they have.
 
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