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Yet another serious pitfall of ULSD and Bio Blends

3K views 15 replies 13 participants last post by  Lyrch75 
#1 ·
Not sure people knew this or not but I was going thru some of my downloaded articles and figured this was good info to pass along.

In one statement : Your water fuel separator may not be removing anywhere near the water it is suppose to be with water going straight to your injectors.


Short summary: When we were forced by tree huggers, to protect there DPF and cats rather than change them, to go to first LSD and now to ULSD we first took a a $0.30 per gallon hit. Going from the least costly fuel to only barely cheaper than the most expensive hp gasoline. Next was loss of lubricity which killed our pumps injectors etc.. So now we need fuel additives to keep our parts from failing yet another added cost. Most all fuel companies looking to add some bio to meet the lubricity levels 2%.

Better explanation:

Now it seems there is yet another very serious pitfall to all this cause by needing no sulphur. Water in the diesel fuel mixing well. You say but wait I have a water fuel separator. You may even have a totally separate dedicated one. You may change and drain them without fail. So you think you have got it covered. Your filter saying it pulls almost all the water out. Well you can not drain the water if its not there to drain. It will not be there to drain if it ends up passing right thru the filter. Apparently that is exactly what is happening. Apparently in the rush to remove sulphur to protect those cat and DPF they ended up doing far more. The additives they must use to restore lubricity or the bio diesel them now mix in for the same reason cause the water to actually be able to mix with the fuel so it can now pass right thru the filtering media meant to stop it. Almost all the water fuel sep rely on the fact that water likes to be with water and diesel likes to be with diesel. The do not like the mix. They have different specific gravities. AS we all have seen water falls oil rises to the top. If you have a water droplet it attracts other water droplets. When it gets big enough it falls to the bottom.

Add in these new surfactants to fix what they f'd-up to bow to the tree huggers only created yet another and just as if not more costly f-up. All the water separators work based on fuel and water do not like to mix period. All we do is pull off on of the layers so to speak. The degree to which they repel each other is called interfacial tension (IFT). They are assigned value in number of dynes/cm . The higher the number dynes/cm to more they repel or want to be separate from each other or the lower the "surfactancy" is ) a very good thing). The lower the number of dynes/cm the more they will mix which increases its surfactancy which means they mix better and filters will be increasingly less effective.

In the rush to eliminate the evil sulphur contained in the fuel they never took the time to update the testing standards etc for the fuel. In this case being water fuel sep performance standard. See the normal good old diesel our engines love, made great power from, and don't f-up our systems while keeping our injectors quiet has a Interfacial Tension (IFT) of about 25-30 dynes/cm. Actually that was the LSD. Before that it was even higher as less additives were needed. But the current filtering system were tested and rated based on those levels so it was OK. Now with ULSD IFT range 9-23 dynes/cm. If its mixed with BIO to fix the lubricity its 8-15 dynes/cm Range is larger and much lower. It means far more water is being able to mix with the diesel (emulsification) Even when it's not the droplet sizes are now far smaller and attraction is far less.

Best check your filters and see if they have any performance rating for Bio diesel. Whats worse is, as it only takes a knee jerk reaction to get them to screw up our fuel, to get all the various testing and perf standards/procedures updated and changed takes forever. These new fuels have been know for a generation and out nor for years yet still to this day the testing standards are all over the place. Read the links carefully and take note of the testing to look at for the ratings claimed. In some test standards they can have 7 times higher water and still rate fine.

There is one thing that I found very important as many of us are using hi volume / high flow / high pressure fuel systems: With the changes made to the fuel and with bio, as the flow increased over the water sep media the performance decreased. The larger you could spread the flow out over the media the better the performance. I think this points directly to using the largest size water fuel separator filters as possible. The higher the pleat count or surface area the better. Then the largest OAL size.

South West Research Institute 8th international Filtration Conference: Understanding emulsified water filtration from diesel fuels

Fuel filtration: Protecting the diesel engine 07 May 2009''

There is tons of data and papers on this subject. A google search string of "ULSD Interfacial Tension" will get you more than ever wanted.
 
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#2 ·
Good info Tarm, thanks. I need another cup of coffee to digest it.

Southwest Research always does some great work......
 
#4 ·
I think the biggest thing that should be taken away from this:

* Its a good ideal to see what filters are rated to pull 95% or more emulsified water from Bio Diesel and their us in blends. ( blends under 5% are not required to be labeled ( no notifications at the pump) If it does this it will do all USLD as well.

* If you are running a separate water fuel separator find the largest size filters that fits that has the highest % rating. If you do not have a separate water filter get one soon.

* IMO within the next year most if not all diesel will have bio blended into it at at least 2% B2. It is the cheapest way for them to meet federal lubricity requirements. All Bio is subsidized so it costs them less than paying the penalties or using alternative chemicals. Before the bio came in the main stream a number companies were paying the penalty when caught for substandard fuel rather than add the proper lubricity etc.. chemicals as it was less costly. The direct above came from online articles I read.


* Obvious the only ones to get screwed was the public with all the expenses being pasted along to us. Shipping companies raised their rates, food companies raised prices or reduced sizes, auto makers raised diesel option prices, fuel companies have made serious bank. Using this as a perfect excuse to increase profit line on diesel by 30%. Government used the scare to increase the subsidies paid with our tax money. Guess where the buck stops?:pointlaugh: Screwed=consumer which = you and me. Exactly who benefited? Companies/people holding the patents or possibly making these extra emissions equipment and those with environmental extremist views and basically everyone else. The entire fabricated fossil fuel generated global warming agenda was slowly pushed until there was enough money invested by big corps into products where a real profit potential could be seen. Now there is real money driving it for nothing but its profit potential where the entire tactic is fear mongering. The truth no longer matters as they were able to keep the lie going long enough to where there is now real money to be made and a new line of control. Enough of the ranting.

Glad some found this useful.
 
#5 ·
I put an AirDog on the Ex to help filter the fuel and get rid of any water that might be in it. I couldn't find any info on the efficiency of their water seperator. Is there another screw on seperator that might work better and fit the AirDog unit?
 
#6 ·
I would love to hear from guys that build injectors (Swamps, Rosewood, etc) if they have personally seen increased wear on injectors they get in their shop in the past few years.

If they have seen problems, that would help validate the study. If not, then there might not be much of a concern at all.
 
#8 ·
Please do post what you find out. I did a quick search and couldn't find anything definitive on filter composition for Baldwin, Racor or Fleetguard. If this is really a problem (and it seems like it is and could get worse if/when B5 becomes standard) what are the best products to fight it?

Best,
Jim
 
#9 ·
" So now we need fuel additives to keep our parts from failing yet another added cost."


There has been NO mass die out of Diesels since switching to ULSD. Both sets of injectors/pumps on my trucks had surpassed the 250k mark 99% of those miles additive free (unless gelling was a concern). Oil companies overtly concerned with there image arent gonna want legions of class action lawsuits from angry truck owners for "killing my poor pickup" all over the news. Only Sh*% I believe is what Ive seen on MythBusters.LOLLOL
 
#11 ·
Bad enough that ALL diesel motor manf require water sep fitlers. It is the number cause of fuel system component damage. In fact all big rigs have huge secondary filter setups much like we do when we go to a perf fuel system on our truck and get rig of the fuel bowl. The Hi pressure mech fuel pumps of the CR really get hurt by it for our HUEI its our injectors and luckily less costly electric pumps. Consider what a fuel pump and full set of injectors costs on a CR.:eek:

The funny thing is water in the fuel in the cylinder is a good thing up to a max ratio. It greatly reduces particulate matter cools egts increase power creates a more complete burn. Water injection Unfortunately when squeezed thru the extreme tight clearances of injectors and pumps they reek havoc.

Doesn't this kind of make you wonder why water injection was not tried as a way to reduce particulate matter instead of DPF.

In the big ship and mining industrial engines they are actually using water emulsified in fuel which the larger clearances do not have an issue with apparently. Here is a quote of what was achieved when done:
near-complete abolition of soot, and a reduction of up to 80% in nitrogen-oxide emissions.
Now if this is true can someone please explain why we had to end up with UREA, ULSD, DPF which lead of a 30% increase in diesel fuel prices and surcharge in diesel engine prices. They could have added a cheap water injection system controlled by the ECU possibly with direct cylinder injection. But then where woudl be all the money to make from the consumer in that. :doh:


You know for all those that may have smoke tests now in there states a Water injection system maybe a very good thing to do some checking on. Everything I have read points to greatly reduced soot out the tail pipe.


About the fuel quality and it not needing a fuel additive by use. Testing done by the SAE last year IIRC found that almost 70% of all commercially sold diesel in this country did not meet its min spec. Its cheaper to pay the fines I guess. But now mixing bio diesel may fix at least the lubricity issue but magnifies the water issue.
 
#12 ·
I don't feel that emulsified water in small quantities is harmful to send thru the injectors. I mean the water is in solution.

I've personally ran used motor oil that I could see the white in it from water and then disassembled the injectors afterwards w/ no apparent damage. I've actually sent enough water thru my engine that is loudly protested for 2 tanks of fuel with still no visible damage. Whoops!

I know that Bio if water loving but I have never heard or an issue w/ ULSD doing this more than standard diesel.
 
#13 ·
What I have read is that when the injector fires it super heats the fluid at the same time, the water then separates from the hydrocarbon chain and turns into steam, which cavitates the injector nozzle. This will eventually make the nozzle stick open or closed. In a common rail set up the same thing happens except it can happen in the injection pump instead. I have seen this happen when guys run really bad WVO through their trucks. Once a nozzle stuck open, flooded the cylinder and hydrolocked, bent a rod in the process.
 
#14 ·
That sticking open is what can cause you to melt /crack piston as well I would think
 
#15 ·
Ask any Dmax or CR cummins owner what happens when a HPCR injector sticks open.
I can tell you from experience at work, it will melt a piston into a molten slug in a very short time. The harder the engine is being worked when the injector sticks, the shorter time it takes.
 
#16 ·
Speak with folks that turn wrenches on medium duty trucks and buses for a living. They are un-impressed with the ULSD fuel.
Winter blend or not, the #### will freeze up thanks to holding so much water in suspension. Lost a couple fuel pumps and filters this way.
It is bad mojo on some of the older motors' injectors. Bus that was running like a top on the 500ppm stuff and 6 months on the 15ppm and new injector time!
thankfully a swapping injectors isn't as labor intensive on a truck that allows you to flip the nose/hood forward.
 
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