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Which motor oil will not break down and cause hot start problems w/ Big Oil?

7K views 60 replies 24 participants last post by  Suns_PSD 
#1 ·
Tried Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 full synthetic and now Rotella Synthetic with the same results. I get hot start problems even w/ fresh oil. I thought it was only when I beat on it or when it was really hot outside but that does not seem to be a factor. The good news is waiting only 1-3 minutes is always enough to get it to start right up again.

Checked my low pressure oil pump sometime ago and pressures were high. Swapped my stock HPOP thinking that might be the problem but it made no difference. Am I diagnosing this problem correctly?

Has anyone determined if an additive or a different brand of oil is the way to go?

I'm not to keen on $150 oil changes if I can avoid it.

Thanks for your input.
 
#7 ·
I'm with Dirk on this one
 
#8 ·
I've been using Valvoline Extreme Blue Syn 5-40 in my last 3 changes and I am very happy with it. I can now run 6000 miles in my tow truck without the feeling of the oil breaking down and loosing performance. What amazed me is that it does not burn oil. Nothing added between changes! That's a first for me and the engine has about 200k on it.

I just started to use it in my race truck after I broke the motor in using Delo 400. I ran the Delo on both trucks for years and always added at about 1 1/2 quarts between changes at 3000 miles. I can feel the oil needed to be changed at that time.

I have a commercial discount card (just sign up) and the complete change and lube with filter and Syn oil is about $97.00 and I'm going twice as long so it's only $49 per 3000 miles now. :redspotdance:
 
#9 ·
Schaeffers oil is what we put in all our customers trucks. I realy like it and have no issues with starting, plus the 7000 mile change interval is nice. If its having a hard time starting when hot you could be having an issue with the IPR or Injector o-ring. Or you just need to change your oil more often.LOL
 
#24 ·
I ran the Schaeffers 9000 for a while and the oil would break down to 30w in about 2000 miles with Big Oil.
That seems unusual. I've seen tests that put the Schaeffers 9000 as the most sheer resistant oil there is.

Justin
 
#14 ·
I use the Delo 400 on the 95 and 97. Schaeffers 7000 blend on the SD and Excursion. Change it every 3000 miles with no issues.
But who wants to pay to change there oil ever 3000 miles? I hate doing it ever 6000 now. Thats why I'm going to be going with a AMSOIL by-pass filter and AMSOIL 5w-40 synthetic. Talked to some local people that haul campers around the country out of Elkhart, IN that run this setup on stock motors and change the oil every 25k with no issues. One guy has over 270k on his 7.3 with this setup. The other runs a 08 dmax with about the same setup and has 180k on it with no issues.
 
#13 ·
I think the topic should have said with "your big oil system"
I never had a problem with the Terminator setup.
I will say that 3000 miles was about as far as I could run it though or the engine would romp when it was started cold.
 
#15 ·
With the HEUI injection system, it's more important to keep the oil clean and the only way, is to keep it changed on time. I know people that go 10k miles with there PSD's, and I think they are NUTS. Run cheaper oil, like Delo 400 or any other decent dino oil.

On edit: I stretched the wife's Excursion to over 6000 that last time, but that's because I lost track of time and miles she accumulated...... :doh:, she just drives too much.

Trey, FWIW I bought my 97 from Warren aka Magnum97 and he ran Amsoil for extended periods as you mention doing. I strongly urge against it. The bearings were toast, wrist piston damage, etc.. Buddy and DJ from Empire can elaborate, as they were the guys that tore it down. Engine had 110k on the clock. :(
 
#16 ·
With the HEUI injection system, it's more important to keep the oil clean and the only way, is to keep it changed on time. I know people that go 10k miles with there PSD's, and I think they are NUTS. Run cheaper oil, like Delo 400 or any other decent dino oil.
Are you the one that talked that guy at powerstrokehelp.com into changing his HPO LOL
 
#22 ·
am runnin shaeffers 7000 with the amsoil bypass run mine about 10 k and get the oil analized about every 5k gonna switch to the oilgaurd one of theese days i think injector oring issue with your hot start issue
 
#23 ·
I am running delo 400. I havent changed the oil yet with the big oil so i have no input yet. Seems to be doing well so far though. oil temps nice and cool. They are as cool if not a little cooler that with the stock pump alone :shrug:
 
#31 ·
You can call the Schaeffer's oil analysis lab. They will review your oil analysis reports with you. I have spoken with the head of the oil analysis lab numerous times about the subject of viscosty shear in high ICP/dual HPOP applications in the 7.3L & 6.0L. Your rep should have had you try the series 7000 15W-40, but probably recommended the 5W-40 in Colorado because of the cold start characteristics.
 
#29 ·
What oil are you running now? Is doing better?

Justin
I've been using Valvoline Extreme Blue Syn 5-40 in my last 3 changes and I am very happy with it. I can now run 6000 miles in my tow truck without the feeling of the oil breaking down and loosing performance. What amazed me is that it does not burn oil. Nothing added between changes! That's a first for me and the engine has about 200k on it.
I posted this earlier. I have not tested it because the truck is not showing any signs of degraded oil. It's smooth, no romp, not burning any and looks and smells OK. I'm about 4k on this batch so maybe I'll test it at 6K just for SAG's.
 
#27 ·
Back when haulin horses2 posted here,
I seemed to recall him saying 7k was better then 9k shaffers oil
 
#28 ·
Schaeffer's series 7000 15W-40 will outperform the series 9000 5W-40 in these applications (high ICP/big oil). Why? Because the 7000 15W-40 uses less polymers than the series 9000 5W-40. It is these polymers that tend to break down under high temp & pressure conditions. That is why you have experienced the viscosity drop on your UOA report.

See it all the time in the 6.0L since they run higher ICP (3,500+)

Anyone that runs longer than a 5,000 mile oil change interval should be doing an oil analysis. Do not compare oil change intervals of a chipped 7.3L to a D-Max or Cummins. The Powerstroke is much harder on oil because of the HEUI Inj system. You can easily hit 3,000 psi on a chipped 7.3L and even higher with a 6.0L (3500+). These conditions put the oil under high temps and stress which can result in the viscosity shearing.

Yes some applications can go 20K on an oil change, but Amsoil will drop to a 30 weight oil way before that in a chipped 7.3L or a 6.0L. There are plent of threads on this in the fluids section on PSN.
 
#30 ·
Unless you need the cold starting benefits of a 5W-40 weight oil it is best to go with the 15W-40 in high ICP or dual HPOP applications since the 5W-40's tend to shear quicker under these conditions.

Some important aspects of determing which oil to use in a Powerstoke:

1) High Viscosity Index
2) Low % on the foam sequence test. Especially with the new CJ-4 oil specification which allows for up to 20% on the foam sequence test.
3) a slow TBN drop rate

A Used Oil Analysis (UOA) will easily show if an oil is performing for your specific application.
 
#32 ·
Sorry to rant on - just want to be thorough. Here is the additive comparison between Schaeffer 9000 (5W-40) and Schaeffer 7000 (15W-40) from virgin oil analysis reports.

You can see the difference in the additive packages. Synthetic blends tend to hold additives better than full synthetics.

The biggest kicker being the Antimony (Sb) - a high pressure additive. It is much higher in the 7000 15W-40. Between this and the less polymers used in the 7000 is the reason I would recommend you trying this in high ICP/Dual HPOP applications. Not all UOA labs test for Antimony, but Polaris Labs and OAI Testing do.



=================

Sorry about the hand written grocery list - didn't have time to make it pretty.:D:postwhore2:
 
#36 ·
big oil seems to beat up oil a lil faster.
iirc joey said termies don't like the 203 t-stat mod either.
not sure how the other big O systems fair with it but i would think multi pump units would be similar.
 
#41 ·
I was working on this with JTHarvey on this a while ago. But since moving to SD and all I haven't has much time to put towards it. Jeremy and I were collecting UOA reports for 7.3L rinning Big oil. We have a few running the BTS Dual HPOP setup and they do not seem to shear the oil bad at all. For example, Jeremy's sample had over 3K on the oil and the visosity was still center of mass for a 40 weight, no shear yet. We have a few running the stealth dual setup but I personally do not have any UOA reports on 7.3L's running the Termy Dual HPOP.

If anyone who has any UOA reports on their dual HPOP 7.3L and would like to e-mail or snail mail them to me I would be happy to put together some sort of comparison....
 
#37 ·
Well I ran Amsoil the 5W30 and never had issues with anything. I changed to Delo and now I have all sorts of issues. Amsoil now offers a 5W40 fouul syn and an improved 15W40 full syn. I'd try them. I used to run 15k between changes with a filter and top up at 7.5. Of course that was before BO.

As for the dual remote bypass systems I'd recomend that you pull them off. They do not flow enough oil. The Stock PSD filter moves 25-27 QTS per min. The Amoil bypass filters don;t have big enough lines to move that kind of volume and properly filter the oil. I'm an Amsoil dealer and spent a few months trying to work out the flow numbers with the Tech dep and I could not get any true flow numbers out of them @ 7-10 PSI.

So to sum thing up I had one on my truck with an extra oil coller and my truck would tear the oil up in 1-2k. Now without the Bypass and the extra OC. I still run the same oil temps but get about 4-6k out of my oil.

PS This was before I started to part out the truck.
 
#39 ·
As for the dual remote bypass systems I'd recomend that you pull them off. They do not flow enough oil. The Stock PSD filter moves 25-27 QTS per min. The Amoil bypass filters don;t have big enough lines to move that kind of volume and properly filter the oil. I'm an Amsoil dealer and spent a few months trying to work out the flow numbers with the Tech dep and I could not get any true flow numbers out of them @ 7-10 PSI.

So to sum thing up I had one on my truck with an extra oil coller and my truck would tear the oil up in 1-2k. Now without the Bypass and the extra OC. I still run the same oil temps but get about 4-6k out of my oil.

PS This was before I started to part out the truck.
I had a similar experience as well as Pappy and some others a few years back on Dieselstop when running the Amsoil Dual Bypass sytem (BMK-16). My Iron readings shot up and the viscosity didn't hold very long. I switched to the oilguard bypass system, Delo 400 for a while and now Schaeffer's 15W-40. Since then I believe Amsoil now recomends the single bypass setup and I think they updated the Dual Bypass system.
 
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