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Maximum ICP

31K views 190 replies 54 participants last post by  abianca99 
#1 ·
What do you consider to be the max ICP that is wise to call for? We have a lot of tuners and injectors builders here anymore so lets discuss this a little bit. If you feel that the answer to this question varies depending on the injector please be specific.

Tom
 
#7 ·
i usualy run 3000ish. today i noticed that somewhere in the 2900-3000 area the truck kind of noses over and smoke decreases a tad. this particular truck with stealth stage 1 and hybrids with smallish eh nozzles seems to love 2800 or so. Smoke stays nice and thick, truck pulls hard off the shifts. If you give it more than that the motor quiets a bit, turbo changes tone ever so slightly, and the smoke out the pipe almost vanishes.

The injector builders ive talked to seem to never say anything over 3200, and talking with a few other well knowns in the biz, have actually said theyve seen things fall off around 2800-2900. This is about what i saw today. Just some info to put into the count.
 
#10 ·
I thought the whole point behind big oil was to increase ICP to allow you to maximize the bigger sticks capabilities that the stock HPOP couldn't, but latley i have been hearing to much ICP is bad but nobody elaborates on the topic and they just leave it at that. Would be nice to have some one explain it.

Cowboy Steve
 
#13 ·
the idea behind the larger oil supply at first wasnt to raise the pressure, but be able to have the volume to maintain it. Larger displacement injectors used more oil. They used enough oil to where the volume ran low and 2800, 2500, even 2000 was hard to maintain resulting in lowered atomization, slower reaction etc. The higher volume supply allowed whatever pressure to be maintained. Then a few guys figured since they had the extra volume, why not run the pressure as high as they wanted. this is a brief run down, and then you get into the actualy pressures inside the injectors which can vary from whats in the rails leading to hte injectors and you get real complicated.

Ideally more psi would be great, and we have guys working on injectors that will hold more icp. This would allow (if everything works right) fuel to be expelled faster and atomized better.
 
#20 ·
High ICP is bad because at some point in time the oil pressure becomes greater than the pressure required to crack open the poppet valves. Once this point is reached the injectors can not refill completely because the poppet is always floating. This point seems to be between 2800-3200 psi on most injectors. 2800 psi is probably a bit more common and is generally a "safe" bet. Now modifications can be done that allow higher ICP to be run in the poppets, but I do not know of anyone that is commercially selling injectors capable of operating like this.
 
#23 ·
Well on my recent cross country trip to Cali, I was running 3200-3300. While I was there I had my chip done for Extreme ICP. I picked up some mileage on the way back and also truck pulled better the entire trip back, especially through all those damn mountains. With the 37's and stock gears it was a slug on the way down, on the way back I didn't have to get into the go-pedal to get the truck moving. SOTP (which doesn't mean much) mine does pull better.
 
#36 ·
Dont listen to him Dave, just make sure you are in the shop tommorrow when I call.
 
#32 ·
Ok some how about some rough ideas at what to run babies at?
 
#35 ·
Thanks Dave I might have to play with that here coming up to see what I can notice.
 
#38 ·
Fwiw, I have tested this specifically on almost every set of injectors to go in the truck (except maybe the first few sets back in the dark ages).

And 2800psi has always served me well. This is only the second set to be in my truck that showed more power above 2900psi. The other set was ruined a month later...

Safe bet is 2800 to 2900 without doubt. It's not like you're missing out on much anyway.

What's the most power anyone has ever picked up anywhere from say 3000psi to 3800 or so with no other changes made?

5? 10? 20?


Hold on to your socks boys and girls.

:smirk:



And of that, I can't help but wonder what the power might have been back at say 3000 or so psi with a little fuel pulled out.
 
#39 ·
Great thread thus far and I am very impressed that it has not gone to hell. Someday it would be fun to see some dyno tuning even if it was not on my own truck. Blowby you have any thoughts since I see you are looking at this thread. I might have to try a little road testing of 2800 3000 and 3200 just to see.

Tom
 
#40 ·
If somebody made injectors that could reliably hold 4000 psi without inducing a bunch of lag time or wierd problems at low demand conditions it would be the shiznit..... I would love to have the injector flow I have now with a 200% nozzle....

And to the fella with the better mileage with the higher ICP. Hybrid injectors usually pick a bit of efficiency by running a little more ICP than stock at part throttle conditions. At low fueling levels you actually have more injection pressure with an A code than with a hybrid with the same ICP. At higher demands the hybrid does a better job at expelling fuel and thus higher IP.
 
#42 ·
Charles, I know we don't see eye to eye but good post...Thanks.

However I am very familiar with my truck, especially after 44 hours of driving non-stop. I lost no power, no unusual noise.
How does a truck "FEEL" like its pulling harder??
 
#47 ·
From what i have seen on my truck. My hybrids have stock nozzels so my PW is streched way out to over 6mls makes for a oil hungry hybrid i like High ICP at the snap of the throttle and then like it to settle down. I would like to share numbers but as most of you know im testing the T1 and cannot share them at this time but i will say i like 3000+ ICP
 
#48 ·
Another thought is this i know that my injector builder doesnt like over 3000 psi. Because thats all his flowbench will make. I also know that casserlys will bleed icp at 3200 some how internally. it would be interesting to see a flow bench doing 3800-4000 psi tests maybe someone could build some better parts for the internals the may prevent the poppets from floating and making more power?
 
#49 ·
I also know that casserlys will bleed icp at 3200 some how internally.


How do you know this?




Maybe all HEUI PSD injectors bleed internally.:poke: Poppets??




Oh and high pressure erosion from liquid is a beotch! Fuel side of the injector needs to be looked at too after running extreme ICP.


For those that have not had trouble with high ICP....how many have ICP gauges? Is you ICP extreme at idle? What is your ICP when driving normally? How many have seen there injector internals after years of running high ICP.


On the mileage increase on the cross country trip.....may be your timing at cruising speed was increased? ICP may have been bumped a little but at the MFD to maintain cruise on the highway but I doubt it's anything extreme. Wonder what his ICP was cruising before and after.
 
#54 ·
Since this thread has actually remained a discussion and not turned into a bash fest (let's keep it that way too), I'll answer these questions that were posted earlier. After all, maybe there is still yet something that can be learned from higher ICP pressures. Perhaps there is a difference between split shots and singles in regards to how they repond to different ICP pressures. Or maybe I just want to satisfy my own curiosity.

FWIW, my truck has 123,000 miles on it, and I'm still running stock AD split shot injectors.


For those that have not had trouble with high ICP....how many have ICP gauges?
I have an ICP gauge in my truck. It's the 3rd gauge up on my 4-gauge pillar. It's tapped to the ICP sensor, and does not read from the OBD-II port.

Is you ICP extreme at idle?
No, it is exactly the same as stock. I can flip the switch between stock and any other position on my chip, and ICP at idle remains the same with an average of about 550 psi, at around an 8% duty cycle. Idle quality is also the same between each tune.

What is your ICP when driving normally?
There's nothing but hills where I live, so it varies quite a bit. Driving easy and normal, my ICP pressure probably stays below 2200 psi even in my highest setting. However, it typically holds 2500-3000 psi when driving up a mountain pass at a 6-7% grade going about 65-75 mph (so 2000+ RPMs), even when empty. My tow setting maxes out at about 3600 psi at WOT. My daily driver tune will hold at a max of about 3700 psi, and my racing tune holds about 3800 psi at WOT. My stock setting reaches and holds right at 3000 psi at WOT.

How many have seen there injector internals after years of running high ICP.
I have not. My injectors have not been pulled, with the exception of the original LL injector. However, that was before I bought big oil. I've had my pumps for about 2 years now, and been running high ICP tuning for nearly that long.



Again, please keep this thread on track, as I tried to answer these questions posted in an honest manner, simply to keep discussion going. I'm interested to see how ICP varies depending on the injector type. I've been running the current tunes in my truck for about 2 years now, and regardless of the pro or anti stances for high ICP, so far it has been fine on my truck. To date, my truck still runs very smooth, has no cylinder contribution problems, or any indication at all of injector problems.
 
#57 ·
Since this thread has actually remained a discussion and not turned into a bash fest (let's keep it that way too), I'll answer these questions that were posted earlier. After all, maybe there is still yet something that can be learned from higher ICP pressures. Perhaps there is a difference between split shots and singles in regards to how they repond to different ICP pressures. Or maybe I just want to satisfy my own curiosity.

FWIW, my truck has 123,000 miles on it, and I'm still running stock AD split shot injectors.



I have an ICP gauge in my truck. It's the 3rd gauge up on my 4-gauge pillar. It's tapped to the ICP sensor, and does not read from the OBD-II port.


No, it is exactly the same as stock. I can flip the switch between stock and any other position on my chip, and ICP at idle remains the same with an average of about 550 psi, at around an 8% duty cycle. Idle quality is also the same between each tune.


There's nothing but hills where I live, so it varies quite a bit. Driving easy and normal, my ICP pressure probably stays below 2200 psi even in my highest setting. However, it typically holds 2500-3000 psi when driving up a mountain pass at a 6-7% grade going about 65-75 mph (so 2000+ RPMs), even when empty. My tow setting maxes out at about 3600 psi at WOT. My daily driver tune will hold at a max of about 3700 psi, and my racing tune holds about 3800 psi at WOT. My stock setting reaches and holds right at 3000 psi at WOT.


I have not. My injectors have not been pulled, with the exception of the original LL injector. However, that was before I bought big oil. I've had my pumps for about 2 years now, and been running high ICP tuning for nearly that long.



Again, please keep this thread on track, as I tried to answer these questions posted in an honest manner, simply to keep discussion going. I'm interested to see how ICP varies depending on the injector type. I've been running the current tunes in my truck for about 2 years now, and regardless of the pro or anti stances for high ICP, so far it has been fine on my truck. To date, my truck still runs very smooth, has no cylinder contribution problems, or any indication at all of injector problems.
Pocket, it sounds like I have the same exact tunes as you do. I have had these tunes for about 1 year now with no problems at all. I have read about all of the possible problems with high ICP, but I have yet to experience them. I can see a problem if I ran 3200-3700 all day long, but for the short amount of time it actually holds 3200+, I have seen no side effects. According to the dyno, I do not lose HP at those higher pressures either. I do not know how many people are running those tunes (with stock AD's), but I am curious to see how many and if they have had any problems. Maybe there is a difference between split's and singles?
 
#59 ·
Are we talking icp at WOT...or just cruising...or yes to both?

I also have an ICP gauge tapped into the sensor...not the data port.

When I put my Stealth in (and no...this isn't an ad, its just to let you know what I am running...nothing more or less) I had Jody reburn my F5 and put various ICP programs in...just to see pressures.

On my max ICP setting...I can just barely hold 3800psi. By that...I mean its a very fine line between holding 3800psi and what I believe the poppets floating. When that happens...the gauge pegs 4k+ psi...and the truck falls flat on its face until I let off the throttle. I don't run in that program much...if at all.

I also have a 3200psi and 3600psi tow programs that I am going to experiment with this camping season.

Just cruising around town...or short jaunts down the highway...the pressure settles nicely in at 2800 to 3000 psi. About the only time I see anything higher than that is when some ricerboy pulls up next to me wanting to play.
 
#60 ·
Well I"ll say this I"m done with this thread as there are so many variables to consider. My opinion is this talk to your big oil guy.(if ya ain't got big oil go home as you are not a real player) See who your big oil guy likes for tunes and get your injector builder together and live tune the truck. If the truck makes max power@ 4000 psi of ICP great if it works better @ 3200, @3300, @2700 etc great.
 
#61 ·
Well I"ll say this I"m done with this thread as there are so many variables to consider.

-takes ball and goes home.


My opinion is this talk to your big oil guy.(if ya ain't got big oil go home as you are not a real player)

- you are playing with yourself

See who your big oil guy likes for tunes and get your injector builder together and live tune the truck.

-So my big oil guy will decide who can tune the truck best for my needs and driving style, my injector builder will talk with my tuner and they will agree on whats best for me, and then it must be live tuned? Do I have to fly my injector builder in for the live tuning also? The price of big oil is sounding cheap compaired to what I have to do to make it run right. How much live tuning have you done?

If the truck makes max power@ 4000 psi of ICP great if it works better @ 3200, @3300, @2700 etc great.
What is your favorite game player?
 
#64 ·
Ok I have been reading all these post about how good high ICP is and think I am beginning to believe them and I have come to a conclusion.

I am going to plug my IPR port in my New Stage 2 Stealth so no oil bypasses and I get full volume and pressure.:eek:

Will this help me achieve enuff high ICP to make me truck run the best??:doh:
 
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