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Oil problems with HEUI

19K views 124 replies 38 participants last post by  moore20017.3 
#1 ·
Now that most realize that there is a problem, how about discussing ways to fix it.
I'm considering the air/oil separation method for a street truck, but I have this crazy idea for the dragster. I was going to keep this to myself, but after thinking about it, I would rather see a bunch of you go fast.

Take the injector exhaust port and drill/tap for an Oring boss/copper washer, connect a hard line to a common oil return port then to a bulkhead fitting in the head. Now feed the HPOP from an alternate tank filled with hydraulic fluid and the return line from the heads to the alternate tank.

You use engine oil for it's original intent, engine lubrication and hydraulic oil for it's original intent.

Pick it apart.
 
#2 ·
So you're talking about having a separate Hydraulics system for the HEUI?
my only question would be: wouldn't the higher viscosity of hydraulic oil be less effective at trying to go through the poppet valve?
 
#3 ·
Wow that's something to think about. I think the exhaust port is contributing to the aeration. That would eliminate that and using hydraulic oil would help with foaming. My concern would be wear on the hpop.
 
#4 ·
We are not talking a 100,000 mile set up here:poke:

anyways Parker has a ton of hydraulic piston pumps available and I'm working on a universal billet front cover that will allow easy cam swaps as well as multiple HPOP/CP3 mounting solutions.
 
#6 ·
After reading the other thread I was thinking of something similair but with an oil system for the injectors seperate of the lube system.

A great idea such as yours brings up the inevitable questions like: How much will the hydralic oil change the speed or abilities of the injector, causing new changes to need to be made?

Dave
 
#7 ·
Hmmm, remote hydraulic fluid system. I'm sure there are plenty of sources for tanks etc. That would fit under the hood of a daily driver.

Any chance of hydraulic fuid getting past the injectors into the crankcase?
 
#11 ·
Hmmm, remote hydraulic fluid system. I'm sure there are plenty of sources for tanks etc. That would fit under the hood of a daily driver.

Any chance of hydraulic fuid getting past the injectors into the crankcase?
not anymore of a chance than an LB7 injector allowing diesel fuel in the crank case.
 
#8 ·
The hydraulic oil is thinner and the flow rate and reaction time should be faster.
 
#12 ·
David I did some looking around and with the different oils available I don't think wear will be as much of a issue as I thought.
 
#14 ·
Why would mileage be limited?

Can this be done without removing the heads?
 
#15 ·
Would a thinner hydraulic fluid would improve cold weather starts?
 
#33 ·
Why? What would be the problem with having a hydraulic oil system for a street driven truck?
 
#19 ·
How would separating them help the injector oil if the HPOP system is the origin of the aeration? I only see this as a benefit to the quality of lube oil.
 
#25 ·
Dave.... apparently great minds DO think alike.....

This is one reason I have wanted to go to a dry sump oil system for a while. I actually want to run two oil tanks and use two pressure stages in the dry sump pump. One oil tank would be for the main engine, the other oil tank would be for the injection system. I would hook a scavange pump "slice" to a manifold taking the oil return out of each bank of injectors. Then not only will I maintain two oil systems, but the oil outlet of the injectors will actually have a vaccuum pulled on them (in theory......)

But I have put the dry sump on hold for many reasons at the moment.... BUT it is the ONLY way I know of to accomplish the type of injection that is necessary to make these engine compete with the big boys. I ain't shooting for no puny 1000rwhp either, I'm talking competitive fuel delivery in the pulling truck world. I don't even know if my current goals are possible, but its what I NEED to have a truck that runs with the rest of them. Let me put it this way... right now the HEUI system can deliver enough fuel in an optimized setup to compete in the 2.6 turbo class, I want to run in the unlimited single class.

Jason
 
#29 ·
Ed, Joey, The crank is not the problem. The issue is running the same oil in one engine with two different needs. One being a mechanical lube and the other being a high pressure hydraulic type. The engine lubrication is easy to handle with a quality engine oil. An engine oil is not well suited for the requirements of the hpo system. It's not an IPR location issue. While it as part of the system and contributes to the aeration, the hpop is what shears the oil and causes the foaming. As others have stated, many things can be a factor in aeration. The best way to control the problem is an oil with the correct properties. To do this the systems need to be separated.
 
#34 ·
Nothing at all. The issues that this is meant to correct aren't really a problem on the street. I think it was Charles that pointed out that when hooked to the sled turning 4k rpm's before you apply any load the oil is taking a real beating.
 
#37 ·
I dont see that one comment as a disqualifier for any benefits for a street driven truck, particularly when you have bigger injectors that require bigger oil. In fact I got the impression from the other thread that the oil was being constantly foamed by the IPR. Others commented that one run down the track and they had to wait half an hour. My 400HP truck may not have as big of a problem as a 600HP truck, but it does pump a lot of oil, and its the oil that is foaming, hence the anti foaming additives. I just cant see how our injectors could NOT benefit from having clean hydraulic oil available. I have never liked the idea of that dirty soot contaminated oil all over my injectors. And if the injectors can move faster, that means less resistance, which means less load to drive them and quicker reaction time. Those combined would seem to have a potential for increased performance and mileage even on a stock truck.

I'm going to research this and may use the OBS firewood bitch as a test whore. A hydraulic reservoir for a log splitter should do nicely. Think I'll place an order from Northern Equipment.
 
#52 ·
Great idea David. ;)

My first thought, coming from someone who's never really made power or gone fast, is that the Poppet valve and injector body would probably hardly ever wear at all if you ran good, clean hydraulic oil through them.
That's where I see benefits on a street truck working it's a$$ off everyday.

So... reading this makes me wonder if anyone has ever used hydraulic oil in a flowbench setup to see if there would even be enough benefit?????
I'm not sure what the guys running calibration fluid see, but I have a clear hose from the injector discharge to the tank and see quite a bit of air bubbles. I have no intention on running anything other than 15-40, so I get the most accurate readings possible from the injectors that I can, just in case there actually is a deiscrepancy between fluids.

I could almost guarantee that hydraulic fluid won't bubble like that...

Oh, and that guy in the you-tube videos must be ahead of all you guys since he had to change his HPOP oil. Check with him to see how he built his system.
LOL
 
#38 ·
I'm not saying it couldn't. I don't think you'll see the average street truck put forth the effort for no gain in normal driving.
 
#41 ·
I am a novice. I am a guy who lives off the knowledge that all of you come up with. I love it. My truck is mostly stock, but I the more I am on this website the more I love it.

Just curious if this would be possible. Could someone completely isolate the huei system and use hydralic oil in it? I am not familar with the flow of the heads. No idea if someone could make it a closed loop system. Heads connected, pump, remote resivor? No idea. Prob dumb. Just asking. If this is dumb. Sorry
 
#42 ·
Yes they could be separated. The oil spout from each injector and the return off the IPR would need to be isolated into the system.
 
#43 ·
Now that most realize that there is a problem, how about discussing ways to fix it.
I'm considering the air/oil separation method for a street truck, but I have this crazy idea for the dragster. I was going to keep this to myself, but after thinking about it, I would rather see a bunch of you go fast.

Take the injector exhaust port and drill/tap for an Oring boss/copper washer, connect a hard line to a common oil return port then to a bulkhead fitting in the head. Now feed the HPOP from an alternate tank filled with hydraulic fluid and the return line from the heads to the alternate tank.

You use engine oil for it's original intent, engine lubrication and hydraulic oil for it's original intent.


Pick it apart.
I am a novice. I am a guy who lives off the knowledge that all of you come up with. I love it. My truck is mostly stock, but I the more I am on this website the more I love it.

Just curious if this would be possible. Could someone completely isolate the huei system and use hydralic oil in it? I am not familar with the flow of the heads. No idea if someone could make it a closed loop system. Heads connected, pump, remote resivor? No idea. Prob dumb. Just asking. If this is dumb. Sorry
read above:poke:
 
#44 ·
I didn't know if the injectors had to be addressed. I was curious if just the heads could be isolated in the setup. To make it easier. I am just very interested in what makes the 7.3 run and run better. Thanks
 
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