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Different Big Oil Setups and Reservoir Capacity

6K views 79 replies 26 participants last post by  OVERSTROKED 
#1 ·
How does the factory system ensure the HPOP Reservoir stays filled under extended WOT runs? How have the various big oil manufacturers allowed for increased oil capacitiy needed in the reservoir. I notice the Gen 3 from Swamps has an extra supply line to the unit. Is there any problems with replacement pumps or other systems that do not supplement reservoir capacity?

Just wondering,
Matt R
 
#2 ·
Doesn't the Termy "Remote IPR" dump freshly aerated oil from the IPR outlet right back into the reservoir? While the oil quality may be questionable, it should be no problem for that to maintain the oil pressure in the reservoir.
 
#3 ·
:doh: Charles, you cease to amaze me.....................your just oooozzzzing with wizdumb or is it stupidity?

I think my IQ is dropping a point everytime I read one of your theories.:doh:

Matt, I use the Remote IPR for two reasons.
1) Easy access to the IPR
2) It does keep the reservoir full and the low pressure pump has no problem keeping up. About 5% of my customers were seeing a pressure drop at WOT before the R-IPR was added. Some tried adding an external line from the port near the oil filter, but then worried about pressure drops to the lower end.
3) Another option is an external cooler can also be added in race applications using the R-IPR port to help keep the oil cooler.
 
#8 ·
Why does a restrictive fuel filter cause fuel aeration? Is it "air"? No, it's the same fluid you're pumping in a Vapor state. At a certain heat/pressure any fluid will change states to a gas. This is why a fuel system is sometimes referred to as being "Vapor Locked" when restriction is too great for the pump to get adequate fuel in liquid form to maintain a prime.

Although I don't have a camera in there.... the aeration is damn sure there when you run high rpm/low pw and blast a ton of oil across the IPR that damn sure isn't there if you keep the pw up, and keep the oil going through the poppets and not across the IPR.

The IPR is a HUGE source of aeration on these engines. Always has been. To purposefully blow that right back into the pumps is less than brilliant IMO.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But it'll take more than comments about IQ to come to a conclusion one way or the other.
 
#10 ·
Have you looked at this through a site glass or out the end of an open hose? The fuel aeration is the release of entrained air most likely from the fuel sloshing in the tank.
 
#11 ·
Ok, Charles I have been playing with hydraulics since you were still in diapers(early 80's). I have a few of my pumps running around the country. If it were an issue, I damn sure would know about it.

As for aeration: the R-IPR is on the same circuit as the high pressure oil lines. With your the theory, the injectors are getting aerated oil as well. Also, remember, I'm using piston pumps with really tight tolerances, unlike the loose gear pumps that you are using.

Luke, give me a break: You hate to say what? Last I checked, I build and design High Pressure Oil Systems. If the system didn't work, I would know after almost 5 years.

Matt, anytime you have a question, just PM me. It's just easier.
 
#13 ·
If you think the oil quality is the same traveling through the lines to the heads as that having blasted across the IPR with a pressure differential of oh, 99% in microseconds you may need to work another 40 years with hydraulics and come talk to me then. Do you understand how a nozzle works? Lets assume for a second that blasting all that oil across the IPR (nozzle) does not produce atomization (as your injector nozzles do), you're still pumping hot oil right back to the pump inlet. Want to kill a powersteering pump? Go hold it against the relief and let it keep sucking on it's own outlet oil after it runs across the relief. Heat goes up something fierce.

Kevin, the "air" in the fuel is because diesel fuel is only liquid at a certain temperature/pressure combination (as is any liquid). If you raise the temperature high enough at sea level it will boil. You can do this yourself if you want to see fuel boil. Fill a pot with diesel and put it on the stove till it boils. Are those "air" bubbles rushing to the surface and popping? No, it's diesel fuel vapor.

The other way to boil a liquid is to reduce the pressure. Ever seen a restriction gauge on a fuel system pre-pump? That's telling you how much you're dropping the pressure below ambient. Some people like to call this vacuum. For any given temperature, if you drop the pressure far enough the diesel will boil just the same.

When you have hot fuel (like after it passes through the head rails in a flow-through system and you use it like a coolant) it's hot and if you then have a restrictive pump inlet, because of a restrictive filter, lines or fittings, you are now dropping the pressure as well as raising the temperature. At some point the fuel will begin to vaporize (boil), and you can start seeing the "air" in the lines. This is why it's so much worse with a clogged up filter, and why it will kill a fuel pump/injection pump. The "air" collapses in the pump and can do very, very bad things. No to mention, diesel fuel isn't very lubricating in vapor form.
 
#12 ·
LOL I got a little bit of an education on oil over the past couple days. Whether it's right or not IDK.
 
#14 ·
Oil aeration is a chemical reaction caused when the oil film between two moving parts gets too thin and breaks down the anti wear additive. Or from the oil trapping air in an open environment like a differential.
 
#15 ·
Charles I completely understand what you are saying. Do we know at what pressures and temperatures that happens. The RIPR returning to the res, the pressure never goes to zero.
 
#17 ·
Charles I completely understand what you are saying. Do we know at what pressures and temperatures that happens. The RIPR returning to the res, the pressure never goes to to zero.
No, it just drops 99% from 3000+ to about 30 or less.

Define "zero". Is that atmosphere (14.7psia)? Or a perfect "vacuum" at 0psia? Or maybe 25psia like in the reservoir?
 
#16 ·
Charles, did you just say liquid becomes vapor when it drops below ambient atmoshperic pressure?

Are you sure when the bubbles form that it is not the chemical compound of the oil releasing O2?
 
#19 ·
you know that rough crappy idle ya get when you beat the crap out of your truck and let off of it ya get for a few seconds.

go and dump your ipr bypass somewhere else and give it time to settle and bam that goes away.

how do you think we know this

Travis

oh yeah the original swamps oil pumps dumped back into the resivoir, they dont anymore for a reason
 
#20 ·
Trav my truck has never done that with the Termy. Even when we live tuned it and ran it to 4500 it came down to an idle just fine. I had a bad injector from II and it would act stupid.
 
#24 ·
Mine has no idle issues as well. After reading this thread I wonder, people make many statements based on opinion only. Better yet, they say they have tested it. Testing to me means that it has been proven and documented repetitively, without predigest. It seems I never see documentation to substantiate the majority of the claims "I tested it" I find many tend to sway their results to help justify their agenda.

Lets face it, many of the after market parts are try as you go. It is not like there are tens of thousands of them in service. These vendors put them out to the best of their ability and make changes along the way. Time will tell if a product is worthy or not. There seems to be many self proclaimed experts that actually market nothing, step up to the plate show us all, market and sell something. I bet it is more difficult than it looks. For the record I am not directing this at anyone in particular just making an observation.
 
#25 ·
On that note, I'm going to leave this one to the experienced experts that can repeatedly find new and exciting ways to fuk up a soup sandwich year after year.

;)

(IDE #2463 signing off)
 
#29 ·
I also cant get a bunch of back to back wot runs without losing that "crisp" feeling. Egts start to rise a bit too. Everytime at the track on the return road when i pull up to the time slip booth, i have an idle thats off just a little bit. by the time the truck gets back to the pits and cools for a minute its right back to normal. Ive noticed Rotella seems to "bubble" fairly easy, and Delo just plain sucks. Valvoline Premium Blue has helped a litlte, but honestly everytiem i plan on running my best at the track, i put some fresh oil in it. BTW, im only running the stock hpop so i cant imagine what pumping more past the ipr does.

I think Matt has seen this phenomenon also.
 
#33 ·
I dont think the OP wanted to start a bash fest either, i hate having to scan through all the Bull Sh!t just to get to the useful info!!!:lame: I didnt think this was smacktalk!
 
#35 ·
I constantly get a rompy lumpy idle after just popping the throttle hard, but I kinda like it. I dont know if thats the injectors, tuning, or oil.

David made one of his usual vague comments earlier that leads me to believe injectors may have something to do with it.
 
#36 ·
I constantly get a rompy lumpy idle after just popping the throttle hard, but I kinda like it. I dont know if thats the injectors, tuning, or oil.

David made one of his usual vague comments earlier that leads me to believe injectors may have something to do with it.
Injectors have everything to do with it, they are what cause the engine to idle and run:poke:
Problem is they don't idle or run the way they are supposed to when the oil has air bubbles in it.


Forgive me for being vague at times but I have to admit I cringe when Charles post one of his novels because it does 2 things, makes for a long boring read that most will fail to understand and the other is the few that try to understand will repeat info that is even more wrong they what they would have if the explination had been vague.
The problem is too many IDE's and not enough people willing to listen and learn!!!
 
#37 ·
So quit being vague and give some input. Vague is an understatement for you lately.
 
#39 ·
When Charles said that you said "how does air get in a sealed system" and then stated how you got some oil knowledge lately. So.......why are you asking David what Charles already told you?:doh:

Maybe you can have your tuner tune the air out!
 
#49 ·
Good question and one I was wondering about myself. If this is in fact a problem with higher HP injectors, and since the Termy has a remote IPR, couldn't the remote IPR be fitted to dump somewhere else? I say this as someone who has a Termy with a remote IPR but who has also never really looked at them, which is sad because I have a leak I need to track down. Was planning to take a peek today, but discovered a broken P-trap in the shower this morning made obvious by all the water coming out from under the tub, so I'm off to Ace for the inevitable lack of parts and the ensuing retrofit.:doh:
 
#46 ·
Ok you show more intelligence. It's not a mechanical limit it's electronic.
 
#48 ·
and you can tell......ya'll got it all figured out, see ing how ell your truck runs and all :rolleyes:
 
#50 ·
Mech ...funny thing is..........your truck has the same issues mine had 3yrs ago same miss same everything......
 
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