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Where are your TC lockup and shift points?

17K views 59 replies 13 participants last post by  Charles 
#1 ·
Right now my TC locks up halfway through second and stays fully locked in third and fourth (OD). This does not work in the mountains where I live. I really need it to stay unlocked in all gears at least under lighter pedal pressure. Forcing a downshift with 3/4 pedal makes a lot of smoke, and when it does down shift it goes from under 10 PSI of boost to 25psi. Not good for a lot of reasons, and I instantly have to let off which in turn cause the trans to shift back up. Anyway, it's frustrating and doesn't seem to be much I can do about it.
 
#2 ·
I've tried a few strategies, and I found something that I like.

The PCM in my truck is the VDH5, which leaves the T/C unlocked until 3rd gear. I tried PMT1 strategy shifting before, and I had the same issues as you controlling speed and smoke. It was frustrating. That shift strategy just doesn't work at all in high altitude.

Anyway, I had Jody change it back to locking the T/C in 3rd gear. However, he also changed the shift patterns to hold each gear longer before upshifting. First, this made my transmission feel like a 5-speed, and I don't have huge drops in RPM's between shifts or the T/C lockup. Second, it changed the lockup and the shift into O/D to delay until higher speeds are reached. For example, my truck won't shift into O/D until 50 mph. I can hold any speed just under that all day long, and it won't upshift no matter what I do. Last, I don't lug the engine anymore, and he has a pretty good downshift strategy programmed too.

This has helped tremendously to reduce the amount of downshifting and upshifting, as well as having a better T/C lockup strategy for towing in the mountains. It's great because I have less smoke, and it's easier to control the throttle. I know your pain, that 2nd gear T/C lockup when you are heading straight uphill is a huge frustration.

He only set this shift strategy for 2 of my tunes. The stock tune retains the stock shift patterns, and the race tune locks the T/C up in 2nd gear.

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
#3 ·
It's more complex than moving shift speeds. (99.5->)

You have 26 or more Scalar value's
You have 27 or more Functions
You have 9 or more Tables

All interact and effect shifting, TC locking, Time to lock, Pressure, Throttle position, Load, Delays, Tipin Speed ........

The pedal can be divided up into many sections and each can have it's own complete shifting strategy. It can be programed to perfection if you have a programing package and a little time.

BTW My race tune is also my towing tune, just depends how I work the pedal, like a Stradivarius. No need for 15 options while your trying to drive safely.
 
#11 ·
So, can the the TC lockup settings be programmed to lockup on heavy acceleration, stay locked under light pedal pressure such as when cruising, yet unlock under light pressure until a downshift is forced by further pedal pressure, then relocking on the downshift?
 
#14 ·
I use pmt1 shifting on everything 99 and up now but i set the shift points up a little different. At light throttle i split the shifts with converter lockup and at mid-throttle, I go full lockup from 2nd on up with just higher shift points and earlier downshifts. This seems to be the best of both worlds with not always hunting for gears but still getting a very drivable truck.

I know exactly what Big Bore is talking about because it is easy to get under the turbo a bit in OD with the converter locked and it takes a bunch of pedal to get it to downshift so it will smoke a whole lot unless the smoke control tables are dialed in properly....
 
#17 ·
I really dont think fuel is an issue in my case. It clears up nicely once it spools. It will smoke a bit up here at 8-9000 feet where I live, and especially going over the 11,000ft passes. I start school tommorrow and will be driving it every day from 8000ft down to Denver on roads that vary greatly in speed and terrain, so I will be taking notes and post more as I go along.
 
#18 ·
I'm having the same issues with my tow tunes. I towed my fifth wheel to the dealer last friday for a recall and it just slammed into each gear under medium to heavy throttle. Having the TC locked all the time is putting a lot of stress on the drivetrain and my neck. I have the 40T, 60T and 80T. The 40T has the least amount of jerk on the upshifts, but the 80T is bad whether towing or empty. I tried the 80E towing and it worked the best when it comes to shifting strategy and firmness. Light throttle the concerns aren't as bad at all.
 
#20 ·
I have the NMC1 base which is better than the UKN1 that it started with stock.
 
#22 ·
This is easy to fix. Jody just needs to know exactly where and when you want the TC to lock and unlock. Now that you have the chip and you are driving with it in your enviroment you can convey what you want your tc and shifts points to be at. How Matt had it may not be what you like and yes driving in the Colorado mountains are definitely different terrains then where he was at. Jody will be able to send you another chip out when he is back in the office next Tuesday.

Jody has used PMT1 shift schedules as a base for all of his late 99-2001 federal trucks since he began tuning.

Diane
 
#24 ·
Thanks Diane. Jody and I did talk about it last week. I just sent him an e-mail with some of the detail that I posted here. I figured if I posted here some additional information could be gleaned to help out with adjusting the tunes, and it looks like some of the other PCM shift strategies that were posted might be valuable.
 
#31 ·
I have all the HA tunes. You are right it is TC. The time at which it shifts is fine. The TC just needs to momentarily unlock for the shift. The smoke and lug prior to a downshift seems to me be related to the TC staying locked. UKN1 being a California code would unlock the TC a lot to keep emissions in check so it could build boost before feathering to fully locked again. It didn't let you lug at all. I kinda like that strategy. I also like Jody's ability to keep the converter locked down to 27-28MPH for engine braking too.
 
#35 ·
The TC just needs to momentarily unlock for the shift. The smoke and lug prior to a downshift seems to me be related to the TC staying locked. UKN1 being a California code would unlock the TC a lot to keep emissions in check so it could build boost before feathering to fully locked again. It didn't let you lug at all. I kinda like that strategy. I also like Jody's ability to keep the converter locked down to 27-28MPH for engine braking too.
I do like the engine braking feature of the downshift with a TC lock. I also like the CA strategy above, that is very much like how our luxury SUV shifts. I think being able to build boost with an unlocked TC in a higher gear would be very driver friendly, as long as the TC doesn't bang hard when it does engage. It would be like a downshift, without actually changing a gear. Sort of like having a splitter. I dont mind a harsher lockup under hard acceleration. I am not worried about tranny temps as so far I have been unable to get the temp gauge to register much above 140*
 
#38 ·
Update....

I'm working with Jody to refine the shifting right now. He sent me a starter file that I uploaded lastnight that seems to have the right concept. With a little minor tweaking, I think we'll have a good solution.

He moved up the 3-4 shift to around 50mph. He also adjusted the 4-3 kickdown at light throttle so it doesn't lug at around 40-45mph. The TC unlocks a little too much on coasting (45mph in OD), but I know he'll fix it up.
 
#42 ·
I spoke with Jody the other day and he mentioned someones shift tunes that he had recently worked on. It sounds like our problem is very similar, so please continue to update.
 
#39 ·
Here's the problem...

One second I may be driving down the interstate for instance, at say 70mph, 10% TPS in OD.

Now maybe I want to just lay on down on the pedal, straight to the floor and let the engine work on down the road without any abrupt downshifting or anything stupid like that. Fine.... I'll set the shift point such that it will not downshift at the amount of throttle I want to apply.

Cool. Easy enough with the right control platform, such as the PCS where this takes about 3 seconds.

Here's the problem. Another 30 seconds down the road and I'm at the EXACT same speed, the EXACT same rpm, the EXACT same pedal voltage, same EVERYTHING, except now.... I want to stab it to the floor, instantly drop to 3rd gear and tear ass because I'm passing a car.

Hmmmm.

The only thing different is inside my head. Since the PCM has NO sensors in my head the ONLY way to solve this problem is to give it more input....

And along comes the up/down shift inputs.

You can play games with the pedal all day long. But the fact of the matter is that it can't EVER be 100% right 100% of the time because it can not READ YOUR MIND.

The only real solution is full manual control. And the good news is that it's not hard to do. Add up the price for a few custom programs or custom tuning software and time spent F'ing with that crap that takes a 3 second problem and turns it into the mess that Mike described, and yet does NOT give you the option of full manual control, and the 750 bucks for the PCS that DOES give you full manual control when you want it isn't such an outlandish idea anymore.

Especially since that's the ONLY solution that is truly going to answer the need. Not just come close.


(I hate full automatic transmissions. They are worthless..... for EXACTLY the reasons outlined in the 4 pages of discussion up to this point)
 
#43 ·
Some smart person needs to design a paddle shifter for our trucks. Buddies BMW has regular auto shifting, flip a switch and you can use the paddle shifter on the steering wheel to up shift or down shift. That would be sweet.
 
#44 ·
Paddle shifting is for race cars. My truck will use a joystick. As it stands, for the last year or so I have used a handheld controller where I can flip a toggle with my index finger and toggle between automatic and full manual. Then push the upshift and downshift buttons with my thumb.

I plan to switch to a joystick control soon. In this video you can see how the joystick cycles through P,R,N and D.

I didn't do it in the video because it doesn't effect the servo, but when it's all the way to the left, bumping back shifts up and bumping forward shifts down. At the end of the video you can see that when I remove my hand the stick stays detented in the Forward position, awaiting an upshift or downshift bump, or to be moved past the detent into N (center) or R (far right) or P(center/forward with lock).

This is my solution to the issue. I don't see how paddles work all that well when you're powersliding and rolling the wheel with one hand... It's kinda hard to chase your up/down shift paddles around the wheel like that.

lol.



I started a thread about it a long while back in the engine/transmission conversion forum.
 
#45 ·
That is quite the setup, but I'm holding out for better programming. I've been running the handshaker in the OBS for 13 years and 250Kmi towing over the mountains with materials and equipment, and I have to say that the auto in the SD makes for a very relaxing drive.
 
#46 ·
Yep.....

Which is why when I want relaxing... I just flip a switch and it goes full auto.

lol.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing that you can do with the stock PCM that I, or anyone else running the PCS cannot do quicker and easier. Plus it will do just about anything else you need done on the truck. As it stands, mine also controls both wastegates, controls the water injection, logs first stage boost, second stage boost, exhaust drive pressure and allows me full manual control, as well as log an insane number of other inputs/outputs.

For this upshift/downshift issue of yours, you would simply pull up the upshift/downshift vs load table and literally click on the throttle position and gear you want to effect and WHILE DRIVING, you hit the up or down arrow until it does EXACTLY what you want EXACTLY when you want it to. A couple minutes later, the laptop is closed and you're DONE with this entire issue. Until you realize that later you may want something else at that exact same TPS, MPH, RPM, BOOST, TEMP and whatever else because YOU have changed your mind. In which case.... you have to give it your own input. And again we're right back to upshift/downshift buttons.



So you're having trouble with the 3-4 on the upshift/downshifts right?

This would solve the problem in seconds.


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2211599790082519711zeAvjB


You can see where I clicked on the downshift line in the middle there and hit the down arrow a few times to pull it down. While driving you would simply do this until you could apply the amount of throttle you wanted without crossing the downshift line. Problem solved. In seconds. I know, cause I've done it a million times. It's all 100% live while you drive. And when in "online" mode while driving, it's even better than that, because there will be a little green ball bouncing around exactly where your MPH and TPS are at the moment so you don't even have to wonder where you're at. It's just too damn easy.

Fwiw, that's just a base calibration off their website from a LONG time ago. All my files are on my laptop so anybody looking at that, don't set your points like that because it probably wouldn't work all that well. It's just for demonstration.
 
#47 ·
Wow you guys got me so confused, i dont even know how i want my truck to shift anymore.:eek::doh:
 
#49 ·
So where can i get my hands on one!And how much cabbage would it set me back?
 
#51 ·
Please disreguard my stupideness but is it a kit or sumthin?Or one piece of the puzzle?
 
#53 ·
Interesting:D:evil
 
#54 ·
And the often quoted 900 dollars is from the manufacturer...

I payed a fraction of that. They can be had for 750 dollars including the 4R100 specific harness making it plug and play.
 
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