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common rail 7.3 conversion kit?!?

123K views 180 replies 74 participants last post by  cj1996f250 
#1 ·
Come on guys, I know it's been done. I know it can be done for a non insane price. Just exactly what would it take to make it happen? I say an easy 5 G's could get everything we need for the basic fuel system conversion components. We're only talking about 7.3 injector blanks, new injectors for the blanks, fuel lines & rail, cp3, mounting brackets, and a transfer pump. Just think of what some of you have spent on bigger injectors, dual hpop's, different injectors, different fuel delivery systems, etc. If someone would sack-up and build a kit, all the pullers and racers would be knocking down their door to get one. There's no replacement for displacement, and the 7.3 wins. Just how close are we to a common rail kit? How about a p-pump kit? I wanna see some posts of what has been done in this direction to make it happen.
 
#3 ·
Maybe 5 Gs after a lot of development and the first few thousand units sold.

I'll say right now I know what you're thinking:
The fuel delivery tube connects into the injector above the top of the stock injector hole. I'll say right now that without some serious injector or head re-work, that won't work. The injector will not be far enough down in the head to put the fuel in the right location (fuel bowl).
The other thing is that the sealing process relies on the rigidity of the head to keep the injector and fuel delivery tube aligned and sealed. It's just a metal-metal deformation seal.

P-pump has been done. Google Double Overtime. It's an ungodly strong twin turbo, 4wd, dedicated pulling truck.
On a street truck a P-pump would be moving backwards. HEUI system was the first electronic controlled diesel in the light duty truck market in North America.
 
#5 ·
This is the main reason why i decided to keep a 7.3, build the bottom end to the hilt, and patiently wait for the commonrail system to come out. It's been done before, and if enough people get interest in it, it can be done for anywhere between 6000 and 9000. I know a guy who tried to fit 6.6 heads onto the 7.3 and said it was not even close, and gave up. The real ticket is to machine a billet steel slug the same outer dimensions as a HEUI injector, and then the inner dimension as a Duramax injector nozzle, and then custom valve covers can be made if the lines do not fit under them. If we can get full fueling up to 4000, 4500 or more RPM, youll see the 7.3 right back up top in the game again right with the mechanical cummins, and even well, the duramaxes ;)
 
#7 ·
You'd probably need a custom top half on a custom cover, if you wanted to do dual CP3's stacked staggered on top of one another like a BTS pump system.. I dont think with this big of an engine, for a performance application, a single CP3 can keep up with injecting this much fuel.. No room for a belt driven CP3 on the top of the engine like a cummins...

If you can make 1200 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, that there is 913rwhp. Id say thats right back in the game...
 
#8 ·
... I know it can be done for a non insane price. Just exactly what would it take to make it happen? I say an easy 5 G's could get everything we need for the basic fuel system conversion components. We're only talking about 7.3 injector blanks, new injectors for the blanks, fuel lines & rail, cp3, mounting brackets, and a transfer pump.
Which new injectors for blanks? Are they mechanical or electrical?
If electrical how would you control them?
If mechanical, how would you control them?
If Electrical, then custom computer, $$$$$$ needed.
If mechanical, then must be timed off the crank, so $$$$$$$ needed for the all new front cover and all new gearsets.
And if you want to run a water pump for the street, well that's easy, just takes more $$$ to build that in. Want to use an oem oil pump off the crank? Sure, more $$$, problem solved.
Do you really want to use a stock off the shelf cheap fuel pump? Need $$$ to even come close to the Dodges. They have 2 CP3's, right?
Same goes for injectors. Not to mention Rods, push rods, rocker arms. etc. Do you really need all that? Why go with mechanical and not be able to use the power because of crappy valvetrain?

This does come up from time to time. Anyone interested should take their ideas to a really good machinist and get a price from them.
If your project is estimated to come in under $15k you are leaving something out.
Call and talk with the guys that have done it, they can fill you in on what's needed.
It sounds simple in your head when you think about it, but talk with someone about all the custom work needed and you'll realize how much money you're talking about.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone. Just the opposite. I encourage you to find out and make it happen if you can. ;)
 
#9 ·
The electronics already exist. The injectors with the correct spray pattern already exist. The machine work is simple. The plumbing can be taken care of easy enough as well.

Two stock CP3s are plenty of fuel and work just fine. If that isn't enough you can bump them another 10-15% give or take a bit pretty easy with them sitting on your kitchen table.

The only real item to deal with is getting the position sensor(s) installed in a manor that the new electronics will like. This may require some custom parts depending on what the electronics need, however a wave form converter could always be built to fix that if necessary and would be relatively inexpensive.

The biggest cost in the conversion would come from the lack of cores to trade in on your new parts. The problem problem seems to be at this point the people who are really into the 7.3's and have the time and money to bring a drop-in conversion to market are committed to the HEUI fuel system so far and the HEUI still has some power left in it, just gonna be harder to get it.
 
#10 ·
Hmmm... so the duramax computer will work? the firing order can't be the same, can it? Well, does that mean you change fuel line positioning? if so, no problem. I'm assuming a fairly elaborate front cover would be in order to fit a cp3 , but after the design is figured out, I can't imagine it costing over a grand. how about some brackets and adapters to fit a cp3 where the hpop hooks up? has anyone figured out if this is or isn't possible?
 
#13 ·
Um? It's common rail, doesn't matter where the fuel lines go it's COMMON. You could change the position of the injector harness to change the injector firing order if needed when using the GM electronics.

You don't have to use Duramax electronics but that is the least expensive method I think. But there are electronics that will work, whether you use stock GM part numbers or not. The cost of the Bosch motorsports stuff is quite high, but then you would be GM free.

We need more fuel to make 800hp then a 5.9L engine does. If you are going for big numbers then you are gonna end up with two pumps.
 
#12 ·
We have looked into this quite extensively, the problem is that for a 2000+hp motor, the injector technology is not there yet. Mechanical injectors are the best way to get there as of now. Installing the common rail system is not that hard either way you go either building new heads or using a conversion blank in the HEUI injector bore.
 
#14 ·
Firing a CR injector is so easy that messing with OEM ECU's is a waste of time IMO.

Reading the stock ford CPS for engine position is a breeze. I don't see any issue with doing full stand-alone engine control for anyone decently capable with electronics.

I don't actually see the entire ordeal being that bad honestly. If I weren't so stubborn with the Heui I would do it myself.

Give me another year or so and I might be running CR injectors in my truck.

:eek:

As was stated, the electronics are already there.

lol.
 
#15 ·
Do it....Do it............Check one two do it do it :poke: LOL............

You already have the electronic side figured ?

Could you use anything from the new 6.4s....That way its all PSD !
 
#16 ·
Ya, you could use some stuff from the 6.4, but then you would be doing some custom stuff as you probably would be better off with different electronic controls, but they could work.

A completely new ECM is not that hard to build, but it's outside the realm of what most people are capable of and/or are willing to do. And while building a new ECM is not overly difficult, why waste effort when there are PLENTY of off-the-shelf controls that will work fine. Building a new ECM is gonna be a lot of time. Just laying out the art work is a bit of a chore.

Converting one to CR really isn't too big of a deal, it's just time and money. Money cause the parts are gonna be expensive without cores to turn in, especially so if you use the Siemens stuff. It'll take some time because there will be some fine tuning to do such as setting the injector protrusion, etc. It's mostly straightforward really. 80% of it is just bolting on parts that are already in production with some new brackets.
 
#17 ·
So those of you that say you've looked into it, how much $$$ are you talking about?
For parts with paying cores, for the existing electronics that you can buy off the shelf, and for the custom machining for whatever needs done?

FWIW, the aluminum chunk alone for a new front cover costs more than $1k...
 
#18 ·
Given how insanely happy the dodge guys are that they can even eaaaaaase up on 4krpm with the CR electronics, and the chevy guys running what rpm again with EFI live?

And Gale running a one-off bosch ECU designed specifically for high rpm (not found in any production trucks).

I don't think you want to jump off the 3000 rpm bandwagon right onto the 4000rpm bandwagon.

Although a huge jump, why not just skip the intermediate step and go for the throat with stand-alone you write yourself and decide every single thing for. If you want the fuel to come in 5% when the cigarette lighter is depressed...... so be it.

And I've already said, that anyone doing this could use 6.4 injectors and wouldn't even have any douche bags telling them it's not a powerstroke anymore.
 
#19 ·
So charles your talking an EFI live of sorts for a ford with this conversion right?
 
#20 ·
gayle is not running a one off computer.....Charles sometimes you are not right.....:D


He is running something no different than what is in most duramaxes.

He just knows how to unlock it:D


Common Rail is not that hard and almost done. Problem is this though.

Say a certain shop got it done......how many of you guys are goin to pay 10k, 20k, to have it running on your truck? It is a lot of coin, and probably not going to be for your daily driver type of crowd.....


In fact hows this lets throw the number out there. At 15k how many people are going to want one.....not just presumptions who here would pay 15k to have one in their truck tomorrow?


This should be interesting
 
#23 ·
gayle is not running a one off computer.....Charles sometimes you are not right.....:D


He is running something no different than what is in most duramaxes.

He just knows how to unlock it:D

Well then it's just as simple as the guy I talked to at TS that was doing to actual tuning having lied when he told me just that. So you're saying the guy actually tuning this ECU flat out lied to me?

I guess it wouldn't be the first time.

:(


Maybe it's customary to fill people full of sh*t when you're talking about a truck and I just don't realize it. But I'm learning I guess. Still not my cup of tea.



On edit:

After thinking about this a little more. Both times I've been told something by people I felt were stand-up and very sharp and then had it turn out to be bs.... jeremy was the reason it was then proclaimed as untrue. Is it possible that I never was lied to and he's actually the one lying to me? I only say that because a pattern seems to be developing.
 
#21 ·
I was just at a machine shop yesterday with all kinds of ideas on what to do with a Powerstroke. From this to rod angles.

Tom
 
#25 ·
Dmax guys are saying their limit 4800 rpm with what they have. I talked to someone who was looking into building another open class truck with a Dmax Who was going to go electronic first but said that the physical limits(They had tested) of the injectors was why he would have to be mechanical if he did it. His RPM limit with it was in the same ball park as what the rest said.

But there is suppost to be faster stuff out there now that might move it up some, probably not enought to run open class still.

-Michael
 
#26 ·
Billy Zimmer the owner of stroked out told one of his buddies expect to bring about 15k to the table for the p-pump conversion up and runnin, And i am pretty sure that was a buddy price. Dont forget witht he standard inline bosch pump is really long and will get in the way of the factory/or h2e turbo placement

Travis
 
#28 ·
Looks like 2 different attempts getting intermingled here:
1) P-pump/mechanical conversion.
2) Common rail conversion.
I've looked into it in the past, as have others and we know that 1) will be a min. $15k.
I know nothing about 2) the common rail systems and how they work, which is why I asked the question above, how much $$$ are you talking about, for parts with paying cores, for the existing electronics that you can buy off the shelf, and for the custom machining for whatever needs done?
 
#29 ·
The Bosch ECM on the Banks truck is not a "one off" what it is though is VERY expensive and not a common part found in North America. Anyone who wants to drop the coin on it and buy one.

Jim, I can't give you exact numbers but a set of injectors with no core is around 4500, pump is around 2500-3000 depending on where you buy it for a stock pump with no core. If you are using factory electronics I couldn't say for a complete setup but I think factory replacement ECM's are about 500 but that was with a core and at our fleet pricing.
 
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