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  #1  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:45 AM
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203 degree Thermostat

I recently had a leak coming from my water pump where the housing seals to the thermostat, so I decided to take it apart and see what the problem was. Long story made short I ended up cracking my water pump due to a froze bolt. Since I have to replace the pump now I was wondering. Is the 203 degree thermostat worth putting on the truck, and a new billet housing?
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:49 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

You dont need it, and it doesnt really make a noticeable difference. It's not easily seen either. I guess you call it one of those mods that just sounds cool. Billet this, billet that... In theory it works, and may help engine efficiency a smidgen.
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:52 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Well I read that if I removed my thermostat housing which I have to to replace my water pump, that it won't seal. Is this true or is this them trying to sell a product?
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:59 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Yes, the billet housing is much nicer than the OEM sheetmetal one. However the OEM replacement is like 15.00 at the dealer. The 203* will help trucks that run unloaded most of the time, it will do nothing for a loaded truck and may actually cause the fan to run more often slightly. It just depends on how you drive and what you use your truck for.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:15 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

so I am guessing the dealer housing and a gasket should do the job huh. No need for me to spend money on anything that wont really help me out that much
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:10 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I'd like to verify too. I just got the billet housing and thermostat. A o-ring came with the thermostat. No gasket came with the billet. Am I supposed to get a new gasket for the billet housing?

Thanks,

Jake
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:55 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I used some blue rtv because it leak with just the o-ring.BTW the 203 stat did nothing for me,couldent tell the difference from stock.
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Old 09-18-2008, 08:01 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

same here 203 had no noticed difference on the performance of jizzy.Heater is seriously hot in the winter though.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:59 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I didnt notice any difference on day to day driving with the 203, however, when towing, I notice the engine fan comes on alot more then it used to. Makes me want to pull it back out, and go back to the stocker. But it doesnt leak now, and it has final charge antifreeze in it. So Id rather not mess with it, unless I get really, really bored.
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:33 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I believe International puts the 203ºF thermostat in the T444E. I don't know if the cooling system is any different between Ford and International.

But I have heard diesel mechanics say that a hotter diesel engine is better. Something about burning more of the soot out and keeping the engine cleaner. Maybe it's kinda like cooking the crud off the BBQ grill, or using a self-cleaning oven. Or maybe it was more about a hotter engine that makes it more efficient at creating a better combustion.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:02 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
I believe International puts the 203F thermostat in the T444E. I don't know if the cooling system is any different between Ford and International.

But I have heard diesel mechanics say that a hotter diesel engine is better. Something about burning more of the soot out and keeping the engine cleaner. Maybe it's kinda like cooking the crud off the BBQ grill, or using a self-cleaning oven. Or maybe it was more about a hotter engine that makes it more efficient at creating a better combustion.
If IH put them in then we would be able to order it from IH rather than Bob Riley. This is not the case. The waterpump/cooling system in PowerStrokes never to my knowledge used a 203 t-stat. The temperature was decreased to reduce NOX emissions. There is supposed to be a modest improvement in combustion efficiency with higher temperature. I have never been able to measure any difference in MPG with the 203 t-stat. The older t-stat from IH that was 203 was not designed for use with the waterpumps on our vehicles.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:12 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

the ford replacement t-stat o-ring has leaked on me on several different trucks. now i use the motorcraft t-stat w/ the napa o-ring with no nedd to use rtv, btw if you have to ever replace the t-stat again rtv is a mess to clean
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:38 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I switched back to the Ford thermostat, after not being able to stop the leak on the 203*. If you look at the 203*, it is actually thinner and smaller in diameter than the Ford. The smaller diameter causes the o-ring sit crooked on the 203* causing a sealant problem. The flange is actually thinner causing o-ring to sit further down inside of the waterpump.
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Old 09-19-2008, 03:14 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Will the Napa o ring seal with the stock ford thermostat?
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  #15  
Old 09-19-2008, 04:23 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I like the billet housing. It will survive several t-stat changes. I think I ended up with a .5mpg bump from the stat, but that is debateable. But I would do the billet housing for sure. My housing did not have many miles and it was corroded.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:33 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by lords88 View Post
Will the Napa o ring seal with the stock ford thermostat?
yes the napa seems a little larger than fords gasket. and the new replacement motorcraft t-stat's flange is thinner than the factory one. thats just something that i've run into.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:59 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I'm using the billet housing with the 203 stat with no leaks. I reused the original housing when I replaced the stat but couldn't get it to quit leaking. The billet housing cured the leak issue.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:42 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

lol
i use a 203 tstat with the same ol rusty almost bent stamped POS
original housing on my ride ...no leaks , down side i have seen .

international runs a 203 in some models but the stem is either longer or shorter then what our trucks use...I think.
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2008, 12:31 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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linternational runs a 203 in some models but the stem is either longer or shorter then what our trucks use...I think.
shorter. That is why I said you cannot use the IH version.
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2008, 09:32 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I am also using the billet housing with no leaks, far better than the OEM housing.
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  #21  
Old 09-20-2008, 10:50 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

I've had the 203* stat in two Power Strokes. Noticed it more in the E350 where I could hear and feel the engine run smoother below 2000RPM's...above that, I think they all get pretty smooth. Was better for mileage in the E350 too. Ran it almost exclusively pulling an 18ft enclosed auto hauler.

In the Excursion, I haven't noticed any dramatic differences.
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:05 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Run the stocker, had a 203* and I don't think I noticed a difference with it.
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2008, 01:35 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

The 94.5 to 95 Powerstroke had the 203 degree short Stat and water pump.
96 and up use a different waterpump and Stat. After 97 IH no longer sold the 203 degree short stat either, could only get it "aftermarket"
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:08 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by Haul_n_horses2 View Post
If IH put them in then we would be able to order it from IH rather than Bob Riley. This is not the case. The waterpump/cooling system in PowerStrokes never to my knowledge used a 203 t-stat. The temperature was decreased to reduce NOX emissions. There is supposed to be a modest improvement in combustion efficiency with higher temperature. I have never been able to measure any difference in MPG with the 203 t-stat. The older t-stat from IH that was 203 was not designed for use with the waterpumps on our vehicles.
From my reading, International put a 203F thermostat in the T444E, and also the earlier engines. You are right that they did not put the same exact thermostat into our engines. They differ in stem length. The stem length is different because of the slight differences in the cooling system (ie. coolant bypass valve).

Between my reading and what diesel mechanics have told me (no scientific proof here, so for what it's worth...), International created the 203F thermostat for a better operating engine. Ford changed to the 192/195F for the purpose of reducing emissions.

The temperature difference between 195 and 203 is probably not significant enough to matter to the intake, intercooler, exhaust, or EGT.

For me, I'd rather go with what International does with the engine. They are the ones that designed the engine, fully tested the engine, have the most experience, know diesels, and did what's right for the engine, rather than for the EPA or other bureaucracies that Ford must deal with.

Jake
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:29 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Has anybody else had problems getting the bolts out of the water pump where the fan bolts on? I have two bolts that wont budge? Any advice? I can't take the water pump out without removing the fan first, correct?
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:36 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

10 degrees isn't enough to notice as far as heater temp or the gauge will show, but the extra heat will made a more efficient engine at operating temp. More complete burn that is, but a more complete burn will make more NOx emmissions verses Unburnt hydrocarbons or Particulate Matter.

I know that the man with the highest MPG PowerStroke uses a 203 degree themostat in his truck.

As for the leaking, it's a PITA to get these freaking water pumps to keep from leaking! Even a brand new, non-reman with the lower pipe already installed I've had them leak, multiple times. Same with the crappy thermostat housing that we've had to bend the corners upward to apply more pressure to the seal.

-Michael
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:09 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

Quote:
Originally Posted by lords88 View Post
Has anybody else had problems getting the bolts out of the water pump where the fan bolts on? I have two bolts that wont budge? Any advice? I can't take the water pump out without removing the fan first, correct?
Are you trying to remove the fan without removing it from the water pump itself? I think I understand what you are saying, there are 4 bolts that face towards the front of the truck, and four bolts that face towards the rear. You don't need to touch those until the fan/fan clutch assembly is off the truck.

To remove the water pump, there is only one big nut to take off. Its the one attached to the fan clutch and into the water pump. You can see it, its a pretty big nut right in the middle of the four bolts on both side. Its on a shaft. After that the fan and clutch come off as an assembly. Then you can proceed to remove the pulley off the water pump. You can't remove the pulley before your remove the fan and clutch which come off as one piece.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:45 AM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

All but two of the 444E's we used to have in the fleet came with very low thermostats right from Navistar. They were like 147* or something along those lines.

The only time the thermostat opening temp is gonna affect much is under light load conditions. If you are using your truck you will build heat and the differences between the thermostats will not make one bit of difference. If you are driving 2 miles to the 7-11 in an unloaded truck in the middle of winter, then yes a 203*stat will help.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:49 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Are you trying to remove the fan without removing it from the water pump itself? I think I understand what you are saying, there are 4 bolts that face towards the front of the truck, and four bolts that face towards the rear. You don't need to touch those until the fan/fan clutch assembly is off the truck.

To remove the water pump, there is only one big nut to take off. Its the one attached to the fan clutch and into the water pump. You can see it, its a pretty big nut right in the middle of the four bolts on both side. Its on a shaft. After that the fan and clutch come off as an assembly. Then you can proceed to remove the pulley off the water pump. You can't remove the pulley before your remove the fan and clutch which come off as one piece.
So how do I keep the shaft from turning in order to remove that one big nut?
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:52 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

You will either need to hold the pulley with some sort of gadget you make, or you can get the Ford Pulley Removal tools from Autozone, which allows you to hold the pulley while removing the fan/clutch.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:01 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by lords88 View Post
Has anybody else had problems getting the bolts out of the water pump where the fan bolts on? I have two bolts that wont budge? Any advice? I can't take the water pump out without removing the fan first, correct?


Please start a new post. Some of us are trying to follow the 203 thermostat discussion and have subscribed to updated posts regarding the topic/thread subject.

Thanks.
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:54 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
Between my reading and what diesel mechanics have told me (no scientific proof here, so for what it's worth...), International created the 203F thermostat for a better operating engine. Ford changed to the 192/195F for the purpose of reducing emissions.

Jake

well there you have it .
I haven't seen to many emission reducing designs give better milage or power.

I haven't seen any great jump in performace milage etc.. mabey an eak under 1mpg that only the lie-o meter (overhead inaccurate display ) can detect.
but no loss of performance either.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:21 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by southmike View Post
well there you have it .
I haven't seen to many emission reducing designs give better milage or power.

I haven't seen any great jump in performace milage etc.. mabey an eak under 1mpg that only the lie-o meter (overhead inaccurate display ) can detect.
but no loss of performance either.
Extra heat can increase mileage and reduce HC and CO, but NOx is the one that gets a lot of environmental programs all up in arms. And that's where the hotter T-stats have caused problems in diesel and gas engines on the regulation side.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:54 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
Extra heat can increase mileage and reduce HC and CO, but NOx is the one that gets a lot of environmental programs all up in arms. And that's where the hotter T-stats have caused problems in diesel and gas engines on the regulation side.
Ironically, biodiesel raises NOx too.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:14 PM
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Re: 203 degree Thermostat

:no kidding:
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