Hopefully this post will help others fix their vibration issues at the 70 mph area. Just keep it in the back of your mind that the vibration I'm refering to is at 65mph and higher. And no, I wasn't going to go slower. I use the truck as my daily driver and tow my car trailer.
A brief history.
First
I swapped out the Dana 50 for Dana 60. Truck rode better but not great. The D60 helped in the ball joint department. Installed the F350 front springs and the F350 rear blocks. After the swap, I got the shudder on take off.
I used 1" square tube to shim down the carrier bearing. It helped the takeoff shudder, but it was still there. Not going into detail on how two piece driveshafts work.
In the mean time, I had installed my Baby Hybrids. I thought to myself, maybe I have a bad injector. I spoke with a few diesel mechanics and they told me that if I had a bad injector, it would be all through the rpm range not just at cruising. Plus, the truck was recently live tuned by Jonathan (Beans) and nothing came up.
Next I did the RSK with the SD springs. To level out the truck, 5" blocks where installed under the rear leafs. Truck rode great, better than my gf's Exploder. Then within a few years, it developed a vibration. The hood was vibrating along with feeling it in the seat. There was no vibration in the steering wheel.
After doing the injectors, I did not like the jarring when the trans shifted. Also I had spring wrap up. So I had traction blocks made up. Truck rode better. It handled way better, cornered better and was more stable going over bumps and expansion joints. But the vibration was still there.
I thought it was tires. Got rid of the Cooper ATRs (265/75-16) and went with Nitto Terra Grapplers (285/75-16). Still had the vibration. BTW: Terra Grapplers wore like crazy.
So I had a one piece driveshaft made up. CV joint by the transfer case and slip yoke by the pinion. It got rid of my takeoff shudder. Help my vibration a little but it was still there.
Now the vibration was beginning to get worse. I thought to myself....ahhhh whatever is wrong, let itself blow up and then I'll fix it. I began to inspect everything from front to rear and rear to front. In the course of inspecting the truck, I found a blow rear shock. Replaced both rear shocks. And had all the tires spin balanced. When the tires were being balanced, I saw that the tires were out of round. I told the mechanic that the tires are out of round. He tells me it's normal for truck tires to do that. I said to myself "Bull####". Well.... balanced the tires anyway and the vibration was still there. I start reading about filling the tires up with beads to balance it but never pursued it further.
I get back under the truck and did another inspection. I now take the traction blocks off and put the flat blocks back on. Jack the front end up and find that the driver side outer tie has approx 3/4 play. As I'm replacing the tie rod, I loose the count of the turns. But I'm getting the truck aligned anyway.
After I changed the tie rod, now the steering has vibration. I messed up the toe in/out and feeling the shaffing. I start calling around for an alignment. I called a shop that just specializes in frame/steering alignment in NJ. He tells me that he's a one man operation and doesn't do just steering alignments anymore but he recommended a shop to me. He tells me to call the Front End Shop (FES) in Farmingdale, NJ. I call them and they tell me to come down. FES is about 1 hour from me.
The tech drives my truck and looks at the condition of my tires. He recommended the alignment (obviously) and new tires. I wanted to replace the Nittos anyway. I tell them to go ahead to do the alignment because I needed it and to order me four new Michelin LTX M/S 2s.
The FES has the Hunter Road Force Balancer and the Hunter Hawk Eye Alignment System. They keep up to date on equipment and they know how to use the equipement also. The tech told me that the rear was 1/8" (forgot the degrees). He loosen the u-bolts was able to get the rear within a 1/16". He says that the blocks might be off or the bushings in the leafs could be worn. I told him not to worry about the rear.
The tech does the alignment and mounts the Michelin tires on the factory Alcoas. Two of the Michelin tires fail the Road Force test. The warehouse wants the bad Michelins back without wear and the shop has to put the Nitto tires back on. The tech put the Nittos on the Road Force balancer and they fail big time, I think the number was around 83. Put the new tires up front and the old tires on the back. I drive the truck back and the front is like riding on glass. I have to go back the next day to get the other tires. The shop ordered four tires just in case one of the new tires fail the Road Force test. Who would've known that brand new Michelin tires are bad. Oh yea, the tire warehouse hates shops with the Road Force balancer.
After the alignment and new tires, the truck drive awesome. I could let go of the wheel and the truck tracks straight. No fighting the wheel, nothing. As I cruising on the Garden State Parkway, there was no vibration, just like driving on glass. I had a smile ear to ear. Then it came back, the vibration then it was gone again. WTF, WTF !!!!! Maybe I'm feeling the road, who knows.
I drive up to my chassis guy to check the status of my race car. The ride up to CT on 95, the truck was vibrating. The chassis guy is friends with Paul aka: the Punisher. Paul lives about 15 mins from the chassis guy. I call him and says he'll swing by. I was speaking with Paul thinking I might have converter shudder. He swings by and we go for a ride. He confirmed that I do not have converter shudder. The ride back to NJ, the truck had no vibration.
I went to my friend's party this past Saturday. The ride up and down the NJ Turnpike was 95% vibration free. Me being anal, I continued to find the cause. I decided to check my pinion angle for the 10th time. Mind you, now I'm checking the pinion angle without the traction blocks.
I call my chassis guy and confirm how to check the angle. I take my digital protractor/level and place it on the bottom of the drive shaft. Got a reading of 8.3* down. I take the driveshaft off of the yoke. I place the level against the yoke. Got a reading 4.8* with the pinion pointing up.......8.3*-4.8*=3.5* Hmmmmmm not enough pinion angle. I call the chassis guy and tell him of my findings. He tells me to install a 1* shim to make the pinion point down.
After installing the shim, yoke reading was 3.4* up.......8.3*-3.4*=4.9* perfect for leaf spring. The pinion was probably rotating past 0* and causing the vibration to come and go. I go for a ride, and no more vibration. To test everything, I hit the highway at night (less traffic) and set the cruise at 70. I went up 1 mph at a time until I got to 85 mph. I kept it 85 for 2 miles and it was vibration free.
Now comes for the best part.
Between the alignment, new tires and Jonathan's live tuning, I picked up 4 mpg. I almost got 400 miles out of my front tank with the cruise set a 70. I have read that tires affect mpg but never believed until now. After my numerous hours of searching and reading online, I know about drivelines, balancing and driveshafts.
Sorry for this post being long. I did numerous searches on the three/four major diesel sites on this vibration issue. I hope it can help others with their truck.
I also would not buy new tires without them being Road Force balanced.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
A brief history.
First
I swapped out the Dana 50 for Dana 60. Truck rode better but not great. The D60 helped in the ball joint department. Installed the F350 front springs and the F350 rear blocks. After the swap, I got the shudder on take off.
I used 1" square tube to shim down the carrier bearing. It helped the takeoff shudder, but it was still there. Not going into detail on how two piece driveshafts work.
In the mean time, I had installed my Baby Hybrids. I thought to myself, maybe I have a bad injector. I spoke with a few diesel mechanics and they told me that if I had a bad injector, it would be all through the rpm range not just at cruising. Plus, the truck was recently live tuned by Jonathan (Beans) and nothing came up.
Next I did the RSK with the SD springs. To level out the truck, 5" blocks where installed under the rear leafs. Truck rode great, better than my gf's Exploder. Then within a few years, it developed a vibration. The hood was vibrating along with feeling it in the seat. There was no vibration in the steering wheel.
After doing the injectors, I did not like the jarring when the trans shifted. Also I had spring wrap up. So I had traction blocks made up. Truck rode better. It handled way better, cornered better and was more stable going over bumps and expansion joints. But the vibration was still there.
I thought it was tires. Got rid of the Cooper ATRs (265/75-16) and went with Nitto Terra Grapplers (285/75-16). Still had the vibration. BTW: Terra Grapplers wore like crazy.
So I had a one piece driveshaft made up. CV joint by the transfer case and slip yoke by the pinion. It got rid of my takeoff shudder. Help my vibration a little but it was still there.
Now the vibration was beginning to get worse. I thought to myself....ahhhh whatever is wrong, let itself blow up and then I'll fix it. I began to inspect everything from front to rear and rear to front. In the course of inspecting the truck, I found a blow rear shock. Replaced both rear shocks. And had all the tires spin balanced. When the tires were being balanced, I saw that the tires were out of round. I told the mechanic that the tires are out of round. He tells me it's normal for truck tires to do that. I said to myself "Bull####". Well.... balanced the tires anyway and the vibration was still there. I start reading about filling the tires up with beads to balance it but never pursued it further.
I get back under the truck and did another inspection. I now take the traction blocks off and put the flat blocks back on. Jack the front end up and find that the driver side outer tie has approx 3/4 play. As I'm replacing the tie rod, I loose the count of the turns. But I'm getting the truck aligned anyway.
After I changed the tie rod, now the steering has vibration. I messed up the toe in/out and feeling the shaffing. I start calling around for an alignment. I called a shop that just specializes in frame/steering alignment in NJ. He tells me that he's a one man operation and doesn't do just steering alignments anymore but he recommended a shop to me. He tells me to call the Front End Shop (FES) in Farmingdale, NJ. I call them and they tell me to come down. FES is about 1 hour from me.
The tech drives my truck and looks at the condition of my tires. He recommended the alignment (obviously) and new tires. I wanted to replace the Nittos anyway. I tell them to go ahead to do the alignment because I needed it and to order me four new Michelin LTX M/S 2s.
The FES has the Hunter Road Force Balancer and the Hunter Hawk Eye Alignment System. They keep up to date on equipment and they know how to use the equipement also. The tech told me that the rear was 1/8" (forgot the degrees). He loosen the u-bolts was able to get the rear within a 1/16". He says that the blocks might be off or the bushings in the leafs could be worn. I told him not to worry about the rear.
The tech does the alignment and mounts the Michelin tires on the factory Alcoas. Two of the Michelin tires fail the Road Force test. The warehouse wants the bad Michelins back without wear and the shop has to put the Nitto tires back on. The tech put the Nittos on the Road Force balancer and they fail big time, I think the number was around 83. Put the new tires up front and the old tires on the back. I drive the truck back and the front is like riding on glass. I have to go back the next day to get the other tires. The shop ordered four tires just in case one of the new tires fail the Road Force test. Who would've known that brand new Michelin tires are bad. Oh yea, the tire warehouse hates shops with the Road Force balancer.
After the alignment and new tires, the truck drive awesome. I could let go of the wheel and the truck tracks straight. No fighting the wheel, nothing. As I cruising on the Garden State Parkway, there was no vibration, just like driving on glass. I had a smile ear to ear. Then it came back, the vibration then it was gone again. WTF, WTF !!!!! Maybe I'm feeling the road, who knows.
I drive up to my chassis guy to check the status of my race car. The ride up to CT on 95, the truck was vibrating. The chassis guy is friends with Paul aka: the Punisher. Paul lives about 15 mins from the chassis guy. I call him and says he'll swing by. I was speaking with Paul thinking I might have converter shudder. He swings by and we go for a ride. He confirmed that I do not have converter shudder. The ride back to NJ, the truck had no vibration.
I went to my friend's party this past Saturday. The ride up and down the NJ Turnpike was 95% vibration free. Me being anal, I continued to find the cause. I decided to check my pinion angle for the 10th time. Mind you, now I'm checking the pinion angle without the traction blocks.
I call my chassis guy and confirm how to check the angle. I take my digital protractor/level and place it on the bottom of the drive shaft. Got a reading of 8.3* down. I take the driveshaft off of the yoke. I place the level against the yoke. Got a reading 4.8* with the pinion pointing up.......8.3*-4.8*=3.5* Hmmmmmm not enough pinion angle. I call the chassis guy and tell him of my findings. He tells me to install a 1* shim to make the pinion point down.
After installing the shim, yoke reading was 3.4* up.......8.3*-3.4*=4.9* perfect for leaf spring. The pinion was probably rotating past 0* and causing the vibration to come and go. I go for a ride, and no more vibration. To test everything, I hit the highway at night (less traffic) and set the cruise at 70. I went up 1 mph at a time until I got to 85 mph. I kept it 85 for 2 miles and it was vibration free.
Now comes for the best part.
Between the alignment, new tires and Jonathan's live tuning, I picked up 4 mpg. I almost got 400 miles out of my front tank with the cruise set a 70. I have read that tires affect mpg but never believed until now. After my numerous hours of searching and reading online, I know about drivelines, balancing and driveshafts.
Sorry for this post being long. I did numerous searches on the three/four major diesel sites on this vibration issue. I hope it can help others with their truck.
I also would not buy new tires without them being Road Force balanced.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com