I am looking for a VERY fuel efficient car that can seat 4-5 people. I am considering a jetta, jetta sport wagon, civic or any suggestion you may have. The car must be fairly simple, easy to maintain (no money pits) and fuel efficient.
I saw that the jetta TDI gets about 34-42, but the civic is around 32-38. Are those few extra mpgs worth it? Is the jetta much roomier than the civic sedan? Suggestions? Thanks.
I bought the wife a Jetta TDI and she loves it, the money we saved from fuel almost makes the payment. The services on the new ones are paid for by the dealer for the first 36,000 miles. It has been so good I'm considering getting one for myself.
Are you going to buy new or used? The older TDIs are easy to work on and fairly basic. The new ones not so much.
I was shocked at the price of a new TDI Golf, it was 25K and the diesel added 5k to the price.
I don't see how you could ever save enough fuel at today's price of diesel to get your money back out of it.
The old TDIs like my 02 could go 400k so to me it made sense to buy a car I would keep for ten years.
I doubt the new diesels can make it that far.
Nissan Altima is also a car to look at. A little roomier than the jetta with similar mileage.
My dad has a 2010 Fusion, 4 banger with the 6 speed stick. Fun car. He averages 32 MPG driving into the city every day (traffic). It'll get mid-upper 30s on the highway.
Friends of ours have a 2009 Jetta TDI. Around town they get 42, on the highway they get upper 40s.
I love my 98 TDI, it gets 42MPG all day long no matter how hard I am on it!! It will also tow my RZR on a trailer without much issue and get 29MPG doing that! Stick to the older ones for sure, they are easier to work on.
The big question here is whether you are buying new or used. I have a 2003 Jetta TDI that I purchased for around $9,000 last year in May. Its a 4 door but I am 6'5" and it is not exactly the most roomy car for me. Its probably the same as a Civic though.
As far as mileage, I can get anywhere from 48 to 50MPG, hand calculated, in the summer but mine is the 1.9TDI with a 5 speed tranny. The newer TDI's get less MPG because of emissions restrictions and the auto gets a little less that the manuals.
As far as maintenance, they are not the cheapest car to maintain. I just completed the timing belt on mine and it was roughly $850. The timing belt is a very important part of the TDI motor so I did not cheap out on it! Compared to a civic 4 cylinder, they would probably be just a little more to maintain but if you keep up the maintenance on the TDI, it will pay off in the long run!
I am not sure if I want new, newer or used. I hear the 02-03 are the best years, but they are likely getting hard to find in good shaped. When you say $850 on the timing belt, I am assuming you paid someone to do the work or you put a lot of additional parts on at the same time, correct? How often does the belt have to be done? I thought a new diesel Jetta was around $23k.
I have a 2010 Golf TDI and love it to death. When I fill up I hand calculate the mileage and I average over 45mpg on every tank. The car itself is hands down a better car than anything that will get remotely close to the MPG. Every part of the car is well built and made from nice materials, not 100% plastic like a Honda. Go look at a new one and then go look at a Civic. You'll end up back at the VW dealership if you drive both.
Well, this car would do quite a few in town short trips. Does that take diesel out of the running? How are they in the winter? There are quite a few cold days where I won't even fire the truck up because I only have to drive a short distance.
Mine is a great snow car up to four inches or so. Being low to the ground they have issues in deeper snow. A decent set of tires will get you through the routine snow events.
I added a hot start to mine (They don't offer as a factory option) I think it was Red Head heater that made a kit for TDI's. I had a timer that came on a few hours before I left for work. It worked well but I would lose heat after ten minutes or so when the t-stat opened. Comfortable then cold then back to comfortable.
The hot start (750w) as an added bonus added enough heat to keep my windshield from icing up as long as I left knobs set at defrost when I parked the car.
When I bought mine in 02 Diesel fuel was the same cost as regular gas. I averaged 49 MPG mixed city and highway driving. The added mileage and ten year service life (my goal) made it worth going with the TDI.
With ULSD I average 47mpg.
Nowadays with diesel priced higher then premium gas, the reduction in mileage from reformulated diesel fuel and emissions equipment, added complexity of the new engines Urea etc, I just don't know if I would make the same decision that I made in 2002.
Not directed at anyone here, but I have had several conversations with TDI drivers telling me there Late model (06 on up) jetta, passat, golf was getting almost 60 MPG with an automatic.
Not going to happen unless the stay below 50 MPH.
It will take forever to recoup the cost of the diesel providing the car lasts ten years or so.
The cool factor of driving a little diesel vs a small gas burner is there, but I don't know how to place a price on that.
I have fired mine up when it was almost 0 outside. The GP light stayed on for about 4 seconds and the car lit right up. It does not mind short trips at all. I'll tell ya again. just go drive a VW TDI and then go drive a Civic.
Oh and by the way... My VW, even though only FWD and not AWD like my WRX, is a great car in the snow where I live at 7000ft.
I had someone else do the work for me. They are great in the winter. Mine is actually a monster in the snow!! It goes farther than most for what it is. Your MPGs will drop a little in the cold though. I get roughly 44 to 45 in the winter with mine.
We have an 09 TDi Jetta and have gotten 48 on a trip to Nashville and back. I have seen over 50 if I went 60 and let off on the hills. A civic will never get better than advertised unless you tune it, and that wont garner much. I am 6'2" and fit well into the Jetta. I love driving it so much we drove to Nags Head for a three hour walk on the beach and drove the 5 hours back the same day. Love it! The wagon is a lot more money and only worth it if you really need the space. If you get a common rail make sure you have a warranty, they have been having problems with the pumps. The stealership replaced the entire system (and I mean entire, every part that touches diesel including the filler tube was replaced).
ONLY??? So was my 2010. My worst tank so far is a tick over 43MPG. It is a really easy car to drive easy and get killer MPG. I have 5 friends that drive hybrids and they can hardly get better MPG than I do, and that is in a POS car that is not fun at all to drive.
Yeah, that is what I don't get. How is everyone getting more mpg than the manufacturer claims? Don't companies usually under deliver, not beat expectations?
It's not like they are claiming you won't get better mileage. The EPA tests are just that and the numbers are based on set criteria and procedure. I don't baby my car at all but I don't beat on it. There are ways you will see if you get one how you can get three most out of it.
a civic hybrid will get you mid 40's easy, my 2006 4cyl civic manual got 38mpg and i drove it like a mad man. you have to factor in the premium price of diesel vs 87 octane when comparing the two cars and ask any mechanic and they will tell you VW's are a pain to work on electrically.
Even if you get 5 MPG better in the TDI vs the Civic, your cost per mile driving the TDI are higher. Fuel costs are what I pay in NC.
A 500 mile trip with the TDI at 43 MPGs will use 11.5 gallons of fuel at $3.90 per gallon $44.80 total. Factor in the cost of Urea and the Civic is cheaper per mile to operate.
Same 500 mile trip, The civic at 38 MPGs would use 13 gallons of fuel at $3.50 per gallon $45.00 total.
On a new car you would pay $5k more for the diesel option vs gas. The only way to get a return on this cost is run the car until it drops. Fuel mileage won't do it.
TDI service is also more expensive 5qts of synthetic (required) filter every 10k miles and then fuel filter every other oil change. Long term, the timing belt replacement is very spendy. I also agree that the VWs have electrical and electronic gremlins that are difficult to trouble shoot.
Not sure what a Civic costs to maintain but I bet the VW wins that category.
Also look at how many Honda dealers vs VW dealers if you live out in a remote area.
What ever you buy, I would also look at Consumer Reports quality ratings on the vehicles and on Edmonds.com for servicing costs.
The TDi is way more fun, and the mpg does not drop as harshly as a gasser when you want a little speed. The TDi will also be worth much more ten years down the road. The civic is cheaper to maintain after the 36,000 miles of service, but they are not unknown to go way beyond 300k, the civic is not.
Case in point on the mpg this is a prius (which gets much better mpg than a civic) vs a BMW m3....
The TDi is way more fun, and the mpg does not drop as harshly as a gasser when you want a little speed. The TDi will also be worth much more ten years down the road. The civic is cheaper to maintain after the 36,000 miles of service, but they are not unknown to go way beyond 300k, the civic is not.
Case in point on the mpg this is a prius (which gets much better mpg than a civic) vs a BMW m3....
I agree that the TDI can be modded and will be more fun to drive. Mine has a tuning box and is somewhat sporty and is fun to drive. I am also comfortable in my car (I am 6'3" and 270lbs and have plenty of room, no one can sit behind me). Not sure how to put a price value on that.
My take on this thread was the OP wanted as much info as he could on cost benefit value of the TDI vs a gas burner of the same size.
The resale value is only going to be there if the engines last well beyond 200k and diesel stays close to premium gasoline or comes down.
I know that the 02 and older engines will get there and beyond. Not sure if the new ones will.
The mk2's were notorious for rusting out. But everything beyond that and before that are really solid. The only part I worry about is the dsg, I don't really like it all that much.
Most cars in Europe garner better mpg than their US counterparts (for too many reasons to list). But that thing will be a piece of garbage when the batteries tank. The only good hybrids are those that can plug in, that makes sense, or the diesel hybrids. There are some 1.5 ton service trucks I read about in "Diesel Power" that are getting 35 mpg in the diesel hybrid dressing.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Ford Power Stroke Nation
2.5M posts
107.4K members
Since 2007
A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more!