Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum


Home Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum > Other Diesel Topics > Alternative Fuels. SVO, Bio-Disel, and WMO.
Register Members List Timeslips Calendar Auto Loans Sponsors Becoming a Sponsor Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

PowerStrokeNation.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Jeffrey S Brooks
Offline
Banned
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ, USA
Posts: 493
Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Making vegetable oil blend Diesel Fuel (VOBDF) by blending Toluol with WVO

The point of this experiment and video is simply to demonstrating that Toluol will dissolve readily into WVO. It is purely of academic interest and is in no way an attempt to encourage its use or recommend its use over petroleum distillates. I am just posting these experimental blending videos to show that there is a range of solvents that could be blended with waste oils to make diesel fuel. It is up to the user to decide whether they wish to further the experiment by running it on an engine. If you do, then please post your findings on this thread.

The point is making diesel fuel out of waste oils is a form of recycling. And, there are many people making viable and sustainable diesel fuels by blending various solvents with various waste oils. Therefore, there is no reason why the solvents used to thin waste oil need not also be recycled, therefore it is conceivable that someone may come across some recycled Toluol and consider using it as a solvent for making diesel fuel by blending it with waste oils.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:25 PM
kerrynzl
Offline
PSN Newb
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 24
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Toluene has a density of 0.862Kg / liter compared to Diesel at 0.832 kg / liter
No matter how much Toluene you use, you will never get the density of a Toluene / Oil blend close to that of Diesel.
Gasoline is better at only 0.737 kg / liter so less would be required to lower the density of the blend.

Now the bad news
The auto-ignition temperature of Diesel is quite low at 210c, Gasoline is 280c but with Toluene it is 550c

Toluene makes a great octane booster with Gasoline because of the high auto-ignition temperature at slow flame propagation.
It is a step in the opposite direction to what you are trying to achieve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #3  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:53 PM
TylerDurden's Avatar
TylerDurden
Offline
<----Nice headlights!!!
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LaMoille,Illinois
Posts: 1,868
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Yes as kerrynzl said. Toluene, Benzene,acetone,etc. are all found in crude oil and they can exist in differing amounts after refining(distilling). People think they can take A, being oil of whatever origin and mix it with B, solvent of whatever origin and make diesel fuel. It MAY burn in a diesel engine but its just a solution of flammable crap. Not diesel fuel.

Gas and diesel are opposites...gasoline function depends on octane and diesels rely on the right cetane numbers.

This is a fairly dangerous hobby to mix solvents and oils. Recycling, as it was stated, or re-using petroleum based solvents that were used in an industrious way is not only dangerous(you dont know what is in them now after use) but could be illegal. Tread very carefully.
__________________
2000 F250 4x4 cc/sb. 6" w/37's and some other stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #4  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:08 AM
rsr911
Offline
Crazy W85 guy
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 190
Send a message via Yahoo to rsr911
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Side note: Pertaining to WMO rather than WVO, toluene does not have the dewatering and cleaning effect that RUG has on WMO. I did a test side by side and there was almost zero water separation as opposed to RUG which causes the water and some sludge to fall out.

Recycled/reclaimed solvents are common and most are rather contaminate free. Large solvent users such as adhesive coaters often have solvent recovery systems on their ovens. While basically distilled it cannot be sold as new fresh solvent.

The biggest strike against using toluene however is that it functions as an octane improver. That said when starting with dry WMO I have found it works about the same as RUG as far as solvent thinning goes.

Of course the final blend is not diesel, that does not mean however that the engine won't run as well or better on the blend. I have personally recorded a MPG improvement running W85 which makes sense given the fact that the per volume energy content is higher. In theory (I have not tested on a dyno) the power output of W85 should be 5-10 percent higher for the same reason.
__________________
1986 F350 CCLB 7.3 Banks Turbo, 5" stack, currently undergoing a 4x4 dually conversion as well as aftermarket flatbed with goose neck hitch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #5  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:10 AM
rsr911
Offline
Crazy W85 guy
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 190
Send a message via Yahoo to rsr911
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Jeffery, I'd love to see a test involving naptha!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #6  
Old 05-06-2011, 02:54 PM
Jeffrey S Brooks
Offline
Banned
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ, USA
Posts: 493
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsr911 View Post
Jeffery, I'd love to see a test involving naptha!
Thanks for posting your most interesting comments Chris. I will plan making a video of blending naptha with WVO. I have a few more solvents that I want to experiment with as well. I will be posting a new video this Monday
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #7  
Old 05-29-2012, 07:01 PM
emre
Offline
PSN Newb
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Hello All,

It is not the density which matters actually, rather the viscosity of the mixture. I have been experimenting toluene/diesel mixture in my 1.8 diesel engine for like a year. I have used just randomly %10 of toluene and %90 veggi oil, and engine runs smoothly, only there is always the bad smell of exhaust gas as you know. I am thinking a soln to this also: I plan to put granular activated carbon into the exhaust pipe to adsorp the bad smell.

Anyway, Today I decided to calculate how much toluene is really needed to achieve diesel fuel viscosity, since I am a chemical engineer, a lazy one but I had the time :) and while I was searching on the net I saw your forum, and wanted to share:

Viscosity of veggi oil: 35 cS (average)
Viscosity of toluene: 0.55 cS
Viscosity of Diesel Fuel: 5 cS (average)

Using the formula with VBI index in excel sheet with seek target function, theoretically 71% veggi oil and 29% of toluene mixture gives a liquid with the viscosity of 5 cS and density of 0.8957 kg/liter. This mixture is even better than regular diesel when you think of veggi oils' good lubricating properties :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrynzl View Post
Toluene has a density of 0.862Kg / liter compared to Diesel at 0.832 kg / liter
No matter how much Toluene you use, you will never get the density of a Toluene / Oil blend close to that of Diesel.
Gasoline is better at only 0.737 kg / liter so less would be required to lower the density of the blend.

Now the bad news
The auto-ignition temperature of Diesel is quite low at 210c, Gasoline is 280c but with Toluene it is 550c

Toluene makes a great octane booster with Gasoline because of the high auto-ignition temperature at slow flame propagation.
It is a step in the opposite direction to what you are trying to achieve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
  #8  
Old 05-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Jeffrey S Brooks
Offline
Banned
Member's Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ, USA
Posts: 493
Re: Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel

Thanks, emre, for posting your comments on Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil. There is a report of big rigs in Australia that were dishonestly fueled with a blend of WMO and Toluene. Apparently the Toluene melted through the fuel lines of some of the big-rigs and caused several truck fires. So, if one were going to experiment with Toluene as a blending agent above 5% of the blend, then one would want to make sure one had Viton fuel lines.

Like RSR911 said, some people have access to waste forms of Toluene, so why not use free waste solvent to blend with free waste oil to make free fuel? That after all is the point of this series of videos.

Do keep us posted of the results of your experiments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Go to the top
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




(View-All Members who have read this thread : 56
04La4iat, 07hs2000, 20007.3stroker, 24Vford, 89gted, 96hog, beyondlogic, bird963, Bob G, BoomerL37, Brian918, Buford-61, cams-76, Clint39, DieselGirl11, dixiepc, dtrojcak, emre, erbilabuc, fank_town, genie144, glamis_dave, Jeffrey S Brooks, kade625, kerrynzl, les-or-more, LILGSX, Mdub707, neverkickn, North Pro diesel, petie6464, Philbert5454, Picanins, podirtfarmer, poor_rambler, ralph, rsr911, RT-1, scastillo813, shvlhead78, sick97psd1, Simone0414, skippy, skobiak, Snake, spence_08, SteveBricks, Tampa450, TBuck, TomzToyz2, tughill283, turboaz2, TylerDurden, VeggieOilDoug, whitejohn, Yiannit7.3
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:18 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.