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My own Grey vs. Black CPS test

51K views 112 replies 46 participants last post by  speeddemon31176 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I had a chance today to compare the grey and black CPS's side by side, and give you guys some results that you can actually see. I took several pictures showing the size variations, as well as showing the differences in the magnetic strength. The results are conclusive, there are distinguishable difference between the two. Check it out with your own eyes.

First, here are the results of AE and the changes in cylinder rotation. Most cylinders remain mostly the same, however notice the distinct changes in the #3 and #8 cylinders. My #8 drops to zero because I'm running a regulated return and an AD injector instead of an LL. Those with LL injectors probably won't see 0% on #8. I put down the ranges that I saw with each cylinder, with the minimum and maximum values seen after monitoring each cylinder for more than 1 minute each. Engine was completely warmed up each time, with extended drive cycles to ensure that testing was fair and equal.


Grey CPS:________ Black CPS:
1) 0.2-1.2%______ 0.2-0.9%
2) 0.7-1.2%______ 0.7-1.2%
3) 1.6-2.4%______ 0.0%
4) 0.0-0.7%______ 0.0-0.8%
5) 0.0%__________ 0.2-0.7%
6) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
7) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
8) 1.7-2.6%______ 0.0%


The next two pictures show the differences in size. The black CPS is obviously wider than the grey, but if you look closely you can see that it is also slightly longer. For the length comparison, I stood them upright side by side on a level surface so you can see the slight difference.






Now for the last two pictures, I found a washer that was heavy enough that the grey CPS couldn't pick it up off the table, but the black CPS had no trouble picking it up every single time. In fact, the strength difference was incredible, as I could move the black CPS in any direction I wanted and with some force, and the washer wouldn't fall off. The grey one on the other hand could barely lift a corner of the washer off the table, but never could lift the entire thing.





This is all the testing I could think of. Unfortunately I don't have other testing materials such as an oscilloscope to compare signal differences between the two. A while back, Swamps offered to run a test between grey and black CPS's using a cam timing gear, a variable speed motor, and an oscilloscope to see if they could in fact find signal differences between the two sensors. A test like that would verify what many PSD owners have seen with scanners hooked up to their trucks. If they do move forward with that test, I would be very interested to see the results.

On my truck, the grey CPS did not pose enough of a problem to actually trigger a check engine light, or to fail the CCT. However, results may vary with other engines. It is obvious that there is an effect on the #3 and #8 cylinders. Most of the rest remained about the same, with only a small rise on #5 with the black CPS installed.

Right now I am taking a guess that the weaker magnet and slightly shorter sensor has an effect on when the CPS actually picks up the cam timing gear, which would have an effect on injection timing as well. Feel free to discuss or post up ideas or additional information.
 
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#50 ·
Ok so Im starting my own test. Ive ran the grey cps for about a year now and for work I drive 222 miles round trip 3 days in a row. I calculated my mileage with the grey cps and now this week Ill put in the black cps. Ill let you all know what I come up with in 4 days.
Of course this is highway driving at 70 and 65 mph.
 
#53 ·
Yep you are correct.
 
#59 ·
Hey everyone,

I'm new to PSD's. Ya'll have me a bit confused on these CPS's. There's black, purple, a couple different color blues, a grey one, one for an International 6 cyl (dont know why you would want a 6cyl part in a 8cyl) and one for OBS's.... Sheesh, what CPS do I need for a 100% stock 99 F250 7.3 PSD, that it will run correctly with? And, again where is the best place to get it (the right one)??

Thanks in advance,

Bob
 
#60 ·
you would want, according to pockets results a black one. Right now most are running either a black or grey one. I beleive you can still get both from either an IH dealer or Ford.
 
#61 ·
:whs:
 
#65 ·
I went to the IH store yesterday to see if they had any black cps left. They said yea and they said they had 2 of them.
So sure as #### I was going to get both of them but when he brought them out take a wild guess what color they were?
Thats right GRAY! Oh and they swore it was the black one1 FN dumbasses!
 
#66 ·
Damn,better luck next time.:doh:
 
#67 ·
So I am running the gray CPS now and fail a CCT on the number 8 and sometimes the number 2 cylinders....

I also have a knock now at idle!


going today to International and getting the black.
 
#69 ·
got a black one from IH dealer yesterday, it was labled with a grey part number and the black ones got deleted out of thier system so i got the black one for grey price $19.55 ... fault code gone since, fingers crossed.
 
#70 ·
The "black one" (like really dark blue) is what IH sold me today
P/N 1876736C91 said it was latest update...Thats my back up.

Aljay I have nice new "gray one " for your smoker!
 
#71 ·
How much did it cost?
 
#72 ·
It came to $29. and change. I guess I didn't get the Gray or buddy
deal.
 
#73 ·
Sounds real cheap for an International cps.:confused:
 
#74 ·
Well Box even has "Navistar, Inc." on it and Henchon (made in)
Mexico . PLease don't tell me I got had...
 
#75 ·
All of my black cps boxes say,INTERNATIONAL,made in the usa.Nothing about Navistar?:shrug:
 
#78 ·
"Navistar" is "International Harvester"...same company.

I believe all of the "factory" CPS's are made by Navistar/IH, the Ford ones are just repackaged. When I replaced my CPS a couple of yeas ago, I got it at a Ford dealer. It was the black one (and it cost a bunch!). It was in a "Ford" bag, but the CPS itself had both "IH" and the IH part number on it. I'm also pretty sure it was "hecho en U.S.A", IIRC...lol

I believe now, though, that some of the parts may be made and marketed by other companies.
 
#76 ·
Guess I've been had by the IH dealer, hope it'll get me home if
it comes down to it! It even has the PN stamp in it. Second
look at box and it does say International in big white letters.
The Navistar is small white letters on lower side.
 
#80 ·
BTW Curtis, I have a blue CPS if you want to do a test. In fact I need to get another black one for my 96 to replace the current blue one in it. I think I have two blue spares in addition to that one. Fell for the pretty advertising again.:doh:
 
#81 ·
Hey guys, did I get the wrong PN for a 2001 7.3???

PN 1876736C91 is what they laid on me. Or it the same
for all 7.3?

Thanks
 
#83 ·
I'm not saying the one you got wont work,but the black cps that i and most folks want is INTERNATIONAL #1821720c99.:bowfast:
 
#84 ·
Well I guess I got "HAD"... I'll have to find an other place to get
the right one. Thanks for the help to show me the WAY!
 
#86 ·
Didn't Jody have these listed on his website?
 
#90 ·
I had this discussion with my IH parts guy a few months ago. IH is OUT of their supply of black sensors. There may be a few dealerships that still have some left on their shelves...but nationally...they are out. The part number...1821720c99 now rolls over to the grey cps.

If you are lucky enough to stumble across a dealer that has a black one on the shelf...get it. I know that NAPA carries a black one...I don't know the part number. I have heard mixed results about that one though. Some report good things...others report that its a piece of crap and good for nothing except a paperweight.
 
#92 ·
This link is not directed at any one individual, so no flamin. Look at the part #'s for the International CPS listed in the link. Is there a right one and a wrong one? Or it does not matter. Several of you have posted the 1821720C99. Match that # to the # in the link. I have always for years wanted to know why the difference in the #'s. If somebody could cross reference the #'s in the link from Ford to International we might get somewhere and I can bury the dead horse.
Can we keep this civil? To me I see it as the C99 # should go to the 99-03 and the C93# should go to the 94-97 but the info shows different. I am running the International 1825899C93 and also have a spare.:shrug:
http://65.121.190.196/mods/cps.html
 
#93 ·
A couple of years ago, when I replaced my CPS (with an International one), I told the IH dealer I needed one for a T444e engine. The dealer said he needed to know the engine serial number. He basically said there was any "early" and a "late" version of the CPS for the 444.

I'm sure this coresponds to the "early" and "late" version of the Powerstroke as well.
 
#95 ·
I know this is an old thread but I just found it in an online search. Just this morning I had to get a CPS so I stopped at my local IH dealer and he sold me IH # 1821720C99.

Did I luck up by getting this? What I've read here is that these no longer exist.

Is this the correct CPS for my 96 7.3? The truck is running, but doesn't seem "right" for some reason. I've also read that maybe these older sensors won't work as well if you have a programmer on the truck, which I do.

Thanks
 
#96 ·
If the sensor is magnetic, it's not a Hall Effect sensor, it's a VR sensor, or variable reluctance. The only way a hall sensor would work in this case is if there were magnets attached to the cam gear.

At any rate, if there is a difference in the actual magnet used in the sensor, then it will have a change in output of the sensor, unless there are built in electronics (signal conditioning) in the sensor itself. Also, a VR sensor is somewhat sensitive to installation clearance, or how close it is to the actual gear or wheel. The farther away, the less signal strength. I could see in some cases with a weaker magnet, a mounting bracket and engine block that were at the opposite end of the tolerance spectrum, that the signal may not be "within spec" for the computer.

I would like to see this test done as well, seeing as how today I just had to change my CPS out due to my truck going into what seemed to be a "limp mode" and hardly idling. I replaced with a grey aftermarket sensor, and it's back on the road again. I don't know if it's the fact that I read here today before I replaced the sensor that the grey one lowers performance, but I could almost swear it seems to be down on power. It does idle quite well though.
 
#97 ·
Update from this morning. I'm thinking the Grey vs black in may case is the placebo effect. Power seems the same and the mileage computer is right on target. Time will tell on the mileage aspect as I'll need to drive it for a week and do a hand calculation. This morning when I filled up, I hand calculated it to be 18.0 mpg vs the computer saying 17.2. Close enough IMO.
 
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