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My own Grey vs. Black CPS test

51K views 112 replies 46 participants last post by  speeddemon31176 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I had a chance today to compare the grey and black CPS's side by side, and give you guys some results that you can actually see. I took several pictures showing the size variations, as well as showing the differences in the magnetic strength. The results are conclusive, there are distinguishable difference between the two. Check it out with your own eyes.

First, here are the results of AE and the changes in cylinder rotation. Most cylinders remain mostly the same, however notice the distinct changes in the #3 and #8 cylinders. My #8 drops to zero because I'm running a regulated return and an AD injector instead of an LL. Those with LL injectors probably won't see 0% on #8. I put down the ranges that I saw with each cylinder, with the minimum and maximum values seen after monitoring each cylinder for more than 1 minute each. Engine was completely warmed up each time, with extended drive cycles to ensure that testing was fair and equal.


Grey CPS:________ Black CPS:
1) 0.2-1.2%______ 0.2-0.9%
2) 0.7-1.2%______ 0.7-1.2%
3) 1.6-2.4%______ 0.0%
4) 0.0-0.7%______ 0.0-0.8%
5) 0.0%__________ 0.2-0.7%
6) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
7) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
8) 1.7-2.6%______ 0.0%


The next two pictures show the differences in size. The black CPS is obviously wider than the grey, but if you look closely you can see that it is also slightly longer. For the length comparison, I stood them upright side by side on a level surface so you can see the slight difference.






Now for the last two pictures, I found a washer that was heavy enough that the grey CPS couldn't pick it up off the table, but the black CPS had no trouble picking it up every single time. In fact, the strength difference was incredible, as I could move the black CPS in any direction I wanted and with some force, and the washer wouldn't fall off. The grey one on the other hand could barely lift a corner of the washer off the table, but never could lift the entire thing.





This is all the testing I could think of. Unfortunately I don't have other testing materials such as an oscilloscope to compare signal differences between the two. A while back, Swamps offered to run a test between grey and black CPS's using a cam timing gear, a variable speed motor, and an oscilloscope to see if they could in fact find signal differences between the two sensors. A test like that would verify what many PSD owners have seen with scanners hooked up to their trucks. If they do move forward with that test, I would be very interested to see the results.

On my truck, the grey CPS did not pose enough of a problem to actually trigger a check engine light, or to fail the CCT. However, results may vary with other engines. It is obvious that there is an effect on the #3 and #8 cylinders. Most of the rest remained about the same, with only a small rise on #5 with the black CPS installed.

Right now I am taking a guess that the weaker magnet and slightly shorter sensor has an effect on when the CPS actually picks up the cam timing gear, which would have an effect on injection timing as well. Feel free to discuss or post up ideas or additional information.
 
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#4 ·
I need to get a black sensor. ford stealership here doesnt have any and the parts guy got buthurt when i tried to explain that the new and improved grey sensor was lighting my CEL.
 
#14 ·
International #1821720c99 :bowfast:
 
#15 ·
The blue one retards the timing,but heres the International part #1807339c92.:doh:
 
#8 ·
I fixed your first post pics with the ones on this site Curtis.

Tom
 
#17 ·
Curtis, great post!

Rep points to you for....oops, wrong board. My bad!

:D

Stewart ;)
 
#20 ·
im gonna get the ford place to do the recall swap again just for chits giggles and then ill do the black one. bad idea?
 
#55 ·
I remember that day well swapping out the old CPS in my driveway & didn't get the old one 100% tight......(get to dealer & tech comes over to us)

Tech- "Dude there's a huge oil leak coming from the front of your engine I think something is cracked"

Smok'n- "Really that don't sound good"

Tech- "Yeah you boys didn't touch anything lately have you?"

Us- "No not a thing this is news to us" (trying to keep a straight face & keep from smerking & laughing)

Tech- "Well sign here & I added some oil you might want to get that leak looked at soon"

Us- "Ok we will have a good day"

Drive away giggling like a couple of little girls. LOL LOL LOL
 
#24 ·
Curtis,
Would you be willing to send me the SAME two CPS's you used in your test?
What I want to do is run those same two units on my test bench and analyze the waveforms with an oscilloscope.
What I have is a 60-2 tooth Eletcromotive crankshaft trigger wheel mounted to a variable speed motor, and a PSD camshaft trigger wheel mounted onto the 60-2 wheel.
There is a MSD pickup on the 60-2 wheel and a CPS on the PSD wheel.

In addition to scoping the waveforms, I plan on comparing the phasing between the gap position on the 60-2 wheel and the PSD cam trigger to see if there is a trigger point (timing) difference between the gray and black CPS's.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours with a scope monitoring injection timing on trucks and have never observed any differences between the two CPS's, nor have we ever noticed any problems or differences on the trucks that come to our shop, but your tests show some very significant differences!
 
#26 ·
Curtis,
Would you be willing to send me the SAME two CPS's you used in your test?
What I want to do is run those same two units on my test bench and analyze the waveforms with an oscilloscope.
What I have is a 60-2 tooth Eletcromotive crankshaft trigger wheel mounted to a variable speed motor, and a PSD camshaft trigger wheel mounted onto the 60-2 wheel.
There is a MSD pickup on the 60-2 wheel and a CPS on the PSD wheel.

In addition to scoping the waveforms, I plan on comparing the phasing between the gap position on the 60-2 wheel and the PSD cam trigger to see if there is a trigger point (timing) difference between the gray and black CPS's.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours with a scope monitoring injection timing on trucks and have never observed any differences between the two CPS's, nor have we ever noticed any problems or differences on the trucks that come to our shop, but your tests show some very significant differences!
Hey...how about also including the blue CPS in your testing? I read lots of anecdotal information about the possibility of gain or loss in performance, but no kind of actual testing to prove anything one way or another.

Thanks...

BTW, Pocket: Excellent info!
 
#42 ·
the Blue (DT466e) CPS retards injection timing by ~4deg, as I recall...making the injection event happen late (hence the smoke)...
That is what I have heard. But I don't understand how that can be when it's simply a hall-effect magnetic pickup...unless it has some electronics built in it to cause the pulse delay. There are still web vendors selling the Blue CPS as a supposed improvement over the stock one. And why is the "new and improved" stock one causing so much trouble?

It would be VERY interesting to see a scope comparison of the three different CPS's.

Of course, someone would have to have fancy test-bench to run such a comparison (Golfer...:poke:)
 
#47 ·
That is what I have heard. But I don't understand how that can be when it's simply a hall-effect magnetic pickup...unless it has some electronics built in it to cause the pulse delay. There are still web vendors selling the Blue CPS as a supposed improvement over the stock one. And why is the "new and improved" stock one causing so much trouble?

It would be VERY interesting to see a scope comparison of the three different CPS's.

Of course, someone would have to have fancy test-bench to run such a comparison (Golfer...:poke:)
Don't understand the reason why either but it do. Sucks I had a handful of cam sensors and was like well which ones are good an which are bad ? Let me tell ya it sux to have been drinking and have one fail,sucks worse is having to replace it while parked on the side of the road.Seems like for a while (till I ponied up for a new one) the blue one was my ace in the hole,soo its my spare it lives in the glove box with a 1/4 drive ratchet and a 6 point 10 mm deep socket !
 
#49 ·
You can order that part number from a local International Harvester dealer or you can get F4TZ-12K093-C from Ford. It is the CPS for the 94 to 96 and it is about 35.00 bucks. It will work in any of the 7.3 powerstrokes.
 
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