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Sucking Air Filter Minder closed!!!!!

19K views 70 replies 25 participants last post by  Al Mighty 
#1 ·
WTF, I'm now sucking the air filter minder closed under hard power!! I saw a thread on here he other day about them so i looked at mine and it waspulled half way roughly. I release it and on the way home it pulled 3/4 closed after a few how throttle passes. I have a K & N on the factory tube. I even banged out the filter as there was some dirt and crap in it but you could easily see through it. I'm going to clean it just to make it as free-flowing as possible. Can the engine be harmed in any way with my tunes and running it hard if it doesn't get air? :confused:
 
#42 ·
Took a short piece of 4 in pipe and contourd it to fit the main pipe
 
#43 ·
Long post..but lots of info to dispel lots of miss imformantion..this has be rehashed for as long as I can remember..same old stories..long story shout Nothing will both out clean and out flow the big Donaldson filter properly installed like it is in a Tymar kit.

Sorry for the late response. Cary asked me to comment on a few threads, this being one of them, a while ago and I’m just getting around to it. However, on a new computer (yea!… sort of… depends if you like Vista).

Anyway, I don’t monitor all the different forums anymore, but am always willing to comment if anyone would like to link me to the conversation you are having. Since I am a bit late, I’ll respond to the posts as they appear and hopefully it won’t be too confusing.

quote:
“have a used AIS…couldn’t find a filter for it…got a FIPKI K&N system cheap…should I put a tymar on or put the AIS back on??? I was thinking of mounting a tymar to the K&N tube…what do you guys think”

The K&N element should probably be avoided in turbo-charged applications. The initial filtration efficiency is not high enough to protect the compressor impeller.

The phrase “mounting a tymar” sounds kind of like Tymar is a filter. The filter we use is a Donaldson B085011 and Tymar is a company name. Tymar Performance makes all sorts of items, one of them being the open element intake kits.

That said, the element we use would not fit on the end of a K&N FIPK system. I guess you could technically modify things to get it in, but you wouldn’t have minimal radial clearance around the filter, which should be considered very important to providing low restriction air to the turbo. Without supplying minimal radial clearance, you won’t get the positive benefits the open element system should create.

The AIS will provide excellent filtration efficiency, but will not improve overall restriction or allow much additional air flow in the configuration that Ford uses. The Tymar Intake will provide excellent filtration efficiency as well as decrease restriction to the turbo and add significant air flow.

quote:
“Tymar is going to give you better flow but AIS is going to give you unmatched filtration…the AIS plus it will last a LONG time, like 60K miles…”

Although the AIS will give better filtration efficiency, you are only talking about 1/10 of a percent over the filter Tymar Performance Intakes use at initial filtration efficiencies. Not enough of a difference to really differentiate between the two.

For the longevity, you have to start talking about restriction ranges in both stock and aftermarket applications and how dirt will affect them. AIS has a larger capacity, but not across the restriction ranges once installed on the truck. Because of the configuration you are not lowering restriction significant over stock levels, but you are receiving better filtration compared to the stock intake.

The Tymar Intake will allow lower restriction levels and lasts approximately 15K miles in a restriction range LOWER than stock. If you want to go with longevity of filter, you can continue using the same filter and will simply not experience the positive benefits of lower than stock restriction levels.

We supplied the intake systems for Granite Construction and used them as a severe duty use test. They were rebuilding Power Stroke engines at approximately 60K miles because of the fine silt in the mining beds. After changing to our system they were using the same filters with 28K mile change out intervals and only experiencing 32”h2o of restriction (yellow on your stock restriction gauges) and they eliminated the necessity of engine rebuilds and were selling the used trucks with over 180K miles on them.

quote:
“I'm using a tymar because it's cheap to setup and offers good filtration.”

Although I agree with you, your listed intake is a DIY 6637, which is neither a Tymar nor a recommended system by us. The WIX/NAPA 6637 is not a hydrophobic (water resistant) element and using it as an open element should be avoided. There are other concerns such as providing minimal radial clearance, isolating engine vibration, positioning away from rain drip channel, etc. But, I just wanted to draw a clear difference between copies, DIY efforts, and our product.

quote:
“…be sure your Tymar-type filter includes the PowerCore filter media and not some lesser media material.”

Although the PowerCore ® media is far superior to most other media, there is not a PowerCore media filter available for use as an open element. They are inserts for intake boxes and are not configure for use as filter alone applications.

The filter media is not the main attraction, but the filter configuration. It is NOT true that you cannot get the same filtration efficiencies or flow rates from other Donaldson products. It will just simply have to be larger. The PowerCore configuration allows for compact applications that have flow rates and filtration efficiencies of filters much larger. So it is the compactness of the element and not that the media processes some magical qualities.

quote:
“IMO, the FIPK tube with the heat shield and the Donaldson (aka #6637) filter combination is hard to beat for the money.”


I would probably respectfully disagree. The problem is the thickness of the stacked gauze media will not allow for a high pleat count and severely restricts the available surface area. A typical RD-1460 that is used in a FIPK system only has about 44 pleats. The Donaldson we use is not only a larger filter overall, but the thinner media allows for 202 pleats, leaving us over 5 times the surface area to pull from. This is why we can outflow and out filter a re-usable element as long as minimum radial clearance is maintained.

The problem with heat shields and routing air through intake boxes is that whenever you direct air flow, you increase restriction. Low restriction is the goal, so using a filter that has the ability to flow large masses of air and then enclosing it in a box yields very poor results. Heat shields do literally nothing. Air flow under the hood is dynamic and not static. It is moving all the time. Hot air will move right around a heat shield at the same temperature and be ingested and the only thing you have caused is turbulence.

Aside from impeding minimal radial clearance and isolation of engine vibration, a serious cause for concern is placing the filter, especially a 6637 element, under a rain drip channel for the hood. Beyond the ambient moisture that will cause restriction as it is absorbed into the non-hydrophobic media, you will be directing water towards the filter anytime the rain drip channel flows more rain than it can hold or spills over the retainer during left turns.

I’ll try to check back in and address further comments in the days to come and can hopefully shed some light on why we do what we do using the configuration we did.

Peace to all, enjoy those rigs!
__________________
Hydroscopic means it absorbs water. Hydrophobic is water resistant. Easy to remember because "phobic" comes from phobia, meaning to be scared of or to repel.

Anyway, both of those filters are hydrophobic. The 085046 filter is for high humidity applications. This has little to do with the hydrophobic capabilities and deals with micro biotic growth since constant high humidity, think of boats that are always in the water moored to a dock, will have greater abilities for mold and such to develop on them.

It should be noted that the 085046 filter is a LOT more expensive and there is no air flow or hydrophobic benefit over the 085011.
 
#44 ·
WOW, that was alot of intersting info. I feel like I just left a prof's lecture!!
 
#45 ·
Good info...
 
#48 ·
I sure would like to see some fresh temp data with the Tymar style.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Here is a pic.
 
#55 ·
filter looks to small to me the k&n i got for a intake kit for a 7.3 has deep 1" pleets and is a couple inches longer than that one i balieve
 
#57 ·
Only comment I will make, is good info. Learned a few things from it. Changing filters soon.
 
#58 ·
Tom, many years ago testing was done and posted on TDS..about 25-30* difference max..IMO not going to make any difference and nothing compaired to the amount air flow gained. I'll see what I can dig up.
 
#59 ·
Cool and this is not a shot from me to Dale just so you know. I have a deal rigged up with a temp sensor to replace the CCV adapter. I just have not gotten to play with it yet. I really do want to do a little of my own testing just for fun and for discussion.

Tom
 
#62 ·
Big ol shop vac lookn filter, aisley has a good one in a thread on a ss pipe going to a 6637 filtr
 
#66 ·
Andy, great pic of the filter, thanks and is there a chance that you know somebody runs a similar set-up on a 6 leaker. I like to take a shoot at it.
Frank


Part number will help as well. LOL
 
#68 ·
I heard they are good to 500 hp but need to change them more often then what the factory recomends.
 
#70 ·
My AFE stg 2 with LARGE zoodad on 98 deg day stopped=110-115....rolling along at 35-45 mph.... slowly cools down to 102 to 105 deg.
 
#71 ·
Yep, "paper" money, actually has no paper at all in it. It is comprised of cotton, and linen. Alot of people are always shocked when they find that out, I am guessing bc worldwide it's referred to as paper, and not "fabric money".
 
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