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Not so mechanically inclined dad....but I am

3K views 26 replies 4 participants last post by  Spence 
#1 ·
So my dad has a 08 F250 6.4..tows a trailer (not a 5th wheel although used to) and wants to improve the performance i.e. fuel mileage. Truck has just over 47k miles, never been tuned. He only drives it a few times a month hence the low mileage. What are some things we can do, or best to take it to a diesel guru to have some work done?? We are in the Seattle area if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any input! And yes, he bought the truck new in South Dakota after his V10 blew going up a long incline.

Kevin
 
#2 ·
I am kind of a new guy too. I have an 09 SD, and love it. If you want to make it better, all you have to do is do some reading. I would recommend looking at Spartan Diesel Tech. Really great people, and are willing to help! I pull a large Montana 5er, and have been thriller with some of the updates I've done. If you want more you can PM me. I only have 57K on my 09 and is my daily drive.
 
#3 ·
Just keep in mind this isn't cheap to start if you want to go the spartan route. Talking 1500 for the tuner off the rip. But if he tows with it the 210 tow performance tune will pull like a dream. Other wise the exhaust is very doable and there are a few other small things you can do if so inclined. Egr deletes are a litter more taxing but if it sits for awhile you can do it at your leisure in a garage at least.
 
#4 ·
Spence is 100% right. It aint cheep, but I did a lot of reading before I pulled the trigger. The Spartan 210 TP works great with my 5er. All I have done to the truck so far is make it possible to run the 210. My goal is to help the truck live longer. After the tune all you need to remember to keep it living is control the RIGHT FOOT. The truck is made to work, not beat. I also put a set of Firestone air spring on the truck from day one. They keep the truck nice and level, and improve handling. I hate to see people driving down the road with the nose of the truck pointing up..
 
#5 ·
Thanks fellas!! Found a Spartan tuner for $900 + unlock from a guy who had it on his 6.7L. Looking at EGR kits and DPF/CAT delete pipes and possibly relocating the coolant filter and oil filter to the frame rail below the passenger side. Pops already has air bags on the rear to help keep it level. As of right now, the deletes and tune will be done first (weekend project) and the rest after the parents get back from a week long trip. Guess I should start leaving my tools at their place.
 
#6 ·
Sounds good. I'd also recommend a ccv mod and cac pipe as those are a just a couple other solid easy reliability mods you can do. Cold air intake as well.
 
#7 ·
Thanks Spence!! I've been reading up on the ccv mod's....not sure which direction to go there. Seems guys are just dropping lines out along the frame rails. Not really wanting to do that since there will be oil drips on the drive way where the truck sits. I've seen some closed loop systems, but not sure which of them is the best way to go. CAC and air intake will be done later on. Pops is already on a short leash with the mods but they'll be done a few at a time over a stretch. Any suggestions on the ccv?
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
The empire one is not a closed loop design. It's simply an oil catch can and a breather cap to vent crank case vapors to open atmosphere. And yes, the second like you said is an oil filter relocation kit, I'm not sure if that vents the crank or not.. As far as dripping oil on the driveway with an open system, that should never happen unless the vapors are condensing in the rubber hose and forming oil droplets. Remember, you are venting oil vapor, not oil itself. The whole idea of venting the crank case on turbo charged engines it to keep the oil vapors from the crank case from condensing back to oil in the intercooler and sludging up your turbo and intake manifold.

Closed loop design, mean you have an inlet and an outlet on a catch can, usually with some type of media in the catch can to condense the oil vapor and trap the oil. The catch can remains under vacuum since its hooked back into the air intake. The catch can also needs to be drained at certain intervals to prevent oil from being sucked back into the intake.

Open loop design simply vents the vapors to open atmosphere, usually bolt on applications that you set and forget. No draining or maintenance usually is required.

Personal preference as far as which type you want to go with, but there is a pretty noticeable cost difference between the 2 types of systems..

Sorry for the novel, but in short under normal circumstances with an open system you should not see oil on the driveway..
 
#10 ·
Wacky, you are correct!!! The empire system is a catch can only. I called Sinister today to get some clarification on their set up and it in fact it does vent crank case vapors. Their filler cap has an outlet nozzle which runs down to another filter mounted on the frame which has a hose leading back to the oil filter cap. That, along with the coolant filter combo is what we ended up going with. Since he's getting ready for a little trip, we'll do the install this weekend (if the unit gets here by then) and change the oil at the same time.

Thanks for clearing up the "VTA" info, pops just wanted to keep it clean and in case there was any possible drips.
 
#11 ·
Did they say how large of a diameter hose was included for a crankcase vent? I know factory is 1", just curious how they compared..
 
#13 ·
The simplest and cheapest method is just running a elbow and some 1 inch hose back down the frame and using a catch can.

I used the mpd ccv which replaces the stock set up. No catch can thougb and I haven't noticed any spots.
 
#14 ·
I'm just curious how the sinister oil filter relocation kit doubles as a ccv mod. I'll do some research and see what I can strum up...

My impression was that the new oil filter cap in the kit ran a hose from the factoey oil filter location down to the new relocated filter, back up to the new oil fill cap. Essentially pumping oil from the old filter location, down to the new filter location and then dumps oil in to the engine through the new cap. Still leaving the need for a ccv mod. I'll see if I can find some hard facts for this....
 
#15 ·
It's hard to tell but there are 2 lines there. So one reroutes the oil and one reroutes the vapor. I feel like the lines are too small personally and I don't think you'd need to worry about an external filter. It's nice to clean up the engine bay but I'd look to spend that money elsewhere first.
 
#18 ·
I was thinking one was filter supply (from engine) and the other was filter return (to engine)?
 
#16 ·
There shouldn't be any oil rerouted since no lines are being changed. Only changes are to the caps of both the filler and filter caps and the addition of an external filter while still keeping the original filter in the same spot. I wonder if their line coming off the filler cap is too small of a diameter to act as a ccv. But there should be vacuum pressure since the return line just runs into the filter cap. Just a thought, but couldn't we just cap off the original 1" hoses that are usually done when running a "normal" ccv mod if a 1" diameter hose isn't "required"??
 
#17 ·
But if you cap those lines, won't you lose all vent from the crank case? I was under the impression that the new sinister filter cap installed where the oem filter goes, with no oem filter in there and it just pumps it down to the frame filter and then back up and into the oil fill cap? I'm still looking for some specifics on this setup.. I just don't want to see you spend 400 bucks and start blowing seals and plugs..
 
#19 ·
The oem filter stays there and the cap is replaced and a second filter is added on the frame. The filler cap is swapped to a sinister one with a 90 on top that connects to the filter on the frame which has a return line to the 90 on the new filler cap. All the diy and brand name ccv kits all block cap one hose that goes into the oem oil fill. the one from Empire comes with a plate that replaces the oil fill, has a D12(?) 90 coming off the top (which can be removed to put oil in) that runs to a catch can. I don't have pics on my phone, which prob isnt helping. I posted links to each site a few replies ago back on page 1 if it helps. Otherwise I can post pics later after I get off work.
 
#20 ·
I'm sensing a little tension here.... I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just trying to help you out. I don't want you to think you are getting a double bang for your buck here. The oil filter relocation kit, your right. It does not remove the oem filter, it runs in series with it. However, it does not act as a ccv mod. I just watched the sinister installation YouTube video (https://youtu.be/ta0V9g4XbpY) and it works as I was suggesting, the oem oil filter cap get replaced with this sinister cap, the hose runs from the engine mounted sinister oem filter cap down to the frame filter and then back up and into the new sinister oil fill cap. At no point does this kit or installation video suggest it doubles as a ccv mod. IMO it's even worse, because it puts oil closers to the air intake tube. Like I said, I'm not here to tell you what to do or how to spend your money, and if this is what you want than go for it, but don't think this is going to help in any way shape or form vent crankcase vapors..
 
#21 ·
Ok, here are pics of each unit. The Empire unit, you take off the OEM oil fill cylinder and bolt in an aluminum plate in it's place, plug/cap the OEM vapor lines and run the 1" line down to a catch can.


With the Sinister set up, you replace the OEM oil fill cap with the Sinster cap which has a small 90 coming off the top, connect a line to there and run it down to the frame rail where a second filter is installed which has an inlet and outlet...the outlet runs back up to the filter cap, which you replace the OEM filter cap (leave the filter in place) with and it also has a 90. So no removal or plugging of vapor line that feeds into the OEM filler can. The kit includes a coolant filter which he wanted as well. Not sure why it says "By Pass" on the second filter when you're not bypassing anything. It's just a secondary oil filter.

With the Sinster set up, the question is, can the line that runs from the "filler cap" down the the second filter and returns back up to the "filter cap" be considered a bypass if the OEM vapor lines are plugged like you would do with the Empire or MPD set up??? I know this is clear as mud, but hopefully the pictures will help.

Thanks again Fellas!!!
 

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#25 ·
I dunno. I know how that empire setup works. Pricy but a good looking kit. But that specifically has a catch can. The sinister has an external filter (oil bypass) that is just extra filtration. There will be oil rerouted because it will at least partially have to go through the filter.

I dunno how the sinister kit would be a ccv as well. It doesn't say it in the product description. If I was gonna but one of there 2 itd be the empire kit. I personally chose Maryland kit. There are others and there are also diy routes to go.
 
#26 ·
Ok Spence, since you have the VTA style...do you notice much odor or haze from the vapors?? I've read that some do and some don't (prob based on their mileage and or tunes being run?). He will be running a 210 tow tune eventually but that's about as extreme as pops is going to get. I'm trying to convince him to skip the catch can type. My truck, absolutely I'd VTA!!!!
 
#27 ·
I've had zero oil drips and not much hazing either. My buddys haze more but I don't see any oil leaking from it either. Another option you can go is to tap it into the exhaust if your dad absolutely doesn't want it hazing or dripping as it very well may or may not.
 
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