6.0 No Start, No Sync - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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6.0 No Start, No Sync

I've probably spent more time reading and learning than hands-on with the truck. I believe I have it narrowed down but now the parts get a little more expensive to just start throwing at it.

2005 F-350 6.0L
275k on the odometer
Completely stock

Here's what I've replaced:
CKP
CMP
IPR (Old one looked fine, screen was clean)

Picked up a ScanGaugeII to monitor and pull codes (no current codes or stored codes)

Cranks forever but does not start. Going through all the troubleshooting threads, everything looks to be in the normal range except for sync and FICM sync. The SGII keeps reading 0 on both, neither change to 1 no matter how long I crank. I checked the resistance from the PCM to the CKP and CMP and the CKP was way high so I replaced both sensors. Now both are in the acceptable range. I can hear the injectors cycle when I turn the key on.

If you want specific numbers I can get them - it's currently 37F out so I have the truck plugged in and warming up.

It has fuel, upper bowl fills in about 3-4 seconds
Oil filter housing fills when cranking - didn't time it but fairly quickly
Oil pressure registers on the dash after longer crank sessions
FICM voltage 48-48.5, holds while cranking
Battery 12.2-12.4v
RPM on the SGII is 160-180 and registers on the dash
High pressure oil is > 1200
Sync: no
FICM Sync: no

If you need more information, just let me know what's missing - I'll do what I can to help you help me. I'm just not sure where to go on this. I'd like to be able to check the harness but haven't found a good pinout anywhere. I wasn't able to find any chafing or obvious breaks with a visual inspection.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 05:09 PM
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Check the wire harness that goes from the engine to the pcm on the driver side where it routes under the air filter and to the pcm and see if there's any wires chaffed. Also on the intake manifold drivers side check the studs to make sure they didn't puncher threw the convoluted tubing I to the wiring

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

I've always hated using ohms. Resistance should be an absolute last resort for testing. Especially when testing for a signal. Always use voltage whenever possible.

Start at square one, the cam/crk sync. Since you tested it at the pcm, I assume you know which pins are the signal wires for cam and crank. If so do this instead, hook red lead of volt meter to cam signal at the pcm connector, use a pin to back probe for this. Then hook black lead to battery neg. Put a socket on the crank bolt and spin the engine over by hand with the key on. You should get a digital 5v signal. 5,0,5,0,5,0. Anything other than that and there's a problem.

Do the same thing for the crank signal. If you have both signals reaching the pcm, but still no cam crank sync, you have a bad pcm. I'm guessing you're loosing signal somewhere, but you need to verify that first.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

I've gone over as much of the harness as I could get hands and eyes on, there are some rubbed spots but no penetration or breaking that I could find. They really got creative with the routing to the lower sensors.

I will get the harnesses all plugged back in and give that a shot with the volt meter.

Thanks for the input, I'll be back with results!
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by olaf_d View Post
I've gone over as much of the harness as I could get hands and eyes on, there are some rubbed spots but no penetration or breaking that I could find. They really got creative with the routing to the lower sensors.

I will get the harnesses all plugged back in and give that a shot with the volt meter.

Thanks for the input, I'll be back with results!
Yeah do, because there is absolutely no point in looking for a short or open if the signal is there right? That would be like checking why you've lost spark, without even knowing whether or not you in fact did loose spark. First establish whether signal is actually getting to the pcm or not, then figure out why. Looking for a short or open in wire looms will make you hate life if you do it for no reason.

There's also no need to look through all the wires, but we'll get to that later.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Getting back to this again...

I kind of feel like an idiot here, it looks like I have to pull the fan to get to the crank bolt. Am I correct there?

If I had someone turn the key while I probed, would a volt meter register the signal or does it send in too short of bursts to register on a volt meter while it's spinning that fast?
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 01:16 AM
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Good question. Two things you can do. You can get a 24mm socket with a flex wratchet on the alternator instead and turn it that way. It'll only spin the engine if you turn the ratchet counter clockwise so keep that in mind. If you spin the ratchet clockwise from the alternator, the tensioner will slacken the serp belt and the crank won't spin.

Alternatively, you can have bump the key several times. Just bump, let the key go, bump let it go. Because yes, your meter won't be fast enough to read a digital signal at those speeds. You'd need a lab scope for that, which is what I now use. But for the first ten years, I did it in one of the two ways I just mentioned. If you choose to bump the key, just make sure you bump it enough to actually spin the crank a bit. If you don't bump it enough, it won't overcome the compression and will just spin a bit and spin back, which could give you a false reading.

If in doubt, try the alternator method and look down at the crank and be sure it is spinning. Once you know for sure it's spinning, look at your meter and look for a 5,0,5,0. If it doesn't read that, and only that, double and triple check your connections and try it again. Of it still doesn't work, then try the same thing at the sensor itself. If you don't get it at the sensor, the sensor has either lost power, or is faulty. If you do get it at the sensor but not the pcm, the signal wire is bad. If you get it at the pcm and still show no sync, the pcm is bad.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 01:18 AM
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Don't forget to check with the key on.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Ok, had a chance to dig in and have some data. Not quite sure where to go with it.

Using the alternator method, I measured CMP+, CKP+, CMP- and CKP- at the PCM connector. I am using page 3 in this pinout (hxxps://app.box.com/s/38db5e11b446942bcf7d) to locate the correct wires in the connector. I am using pins 30,31,41,43

While turning the alternator with a ratchet, both CMP+ and CMP- would go between 3.02v and 3.03v. CKP+ and CKP- would measure 1.54v - 1.55v while turning. At no point did the meter read 0v on any of those pins with the key on.

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 10:51 PM
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Re: 6.0 No Start, No Sync

Standby, looking up the diagram now. Sounds like it may actually be an a/c sensor.
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